Compensations in the body can lead to foot pain. Addressing the root causes of foot pain and adopting a comprehensive approach are crucial for long-term relief. Ditch the temporary fixes!
In this episode of The MOVEMENT Movement, Steven Sashen speaks with Angela Walk, DC, The Plantar Fasciitis Doc. She has developed a six-step program to effectively address plantar fasciitis at home, challenging misconceptions about the condition. Her approach emphasizes transitioning to functional footwear with wide toe boxes and zero drop to promote natural foot function and reduce reliance on orthotics, which can weaken foot muscles.
Key Takeaways:
→ Why functional footwear is crucial in preventing conditions like plantar fasciitis.
→ How orthotics can weaken foot function and contribute to foot problems.
→ Why elevated heels in footwear can lead to gait issues and muscle tension.
→ Why plantar fasciitis rehabilitation should focus on strengthening lower leg muscles, not stretching.
→ How gradually transitioning to barefoot walking improves foot health.
Dr. Angela Walk, a distinguished sports chiropractor with 25 years of experience based in Nashville, Tennessee, is renowned for her expertise in treating plantar fasciitis and challenging the common misconceptions surrounding its treatment. Through her innovative six-step program, Dr. Walk critiques the traditional reliance on orthotics, cortisone shots, and static stretching, advocating instead for a focus on proper footwear and natural foot function. She emphasizes the importance of transitioning to functional footwear with wide toe boxes and zero drop, alongside incorporating barefoot walking and toe spacers to strengthen the foot and promote natural arch support. By sharing her insights on social media as the “plantar fasciitis doc,” Dr. Walk aims to educate the public on more effective, sustainable ways to manage and prevent plantar fasciitis, reaching a wide audience eager for accessible and practical advice.
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Episode Transcript
Steven Sashen
What if everything almost anyone has ever told you about plantar fasciitis, what is causing it and what cures it is completely. I was going to say something more than wrong. Let’s just stick at it wrong. But this one really infuriates me for a bunch of reasons. We’re going to find out more about that on today’s episode of the Movement Movement, the podcast for people who want to know the truth about what it takes to have a happy, healthy, strong body. Starting feet first, you know, those things at the end of your legs. And we break down the propaganda, the mythology and often the outright lies you’ve been told about how, how to run, walk, hike, do yoga, CrossFit, play basketball, pickleball, tennis, you name it, whatever you like to do and to do that enjoyably and efficiently and effectively. And wait, did I say enjoyably? Trick question. I always say enjoyably. I know what I’m talking about. So. Because look, if you’re not having fun, you’re not going to keep it up anyway. So that’s what we want to focus on. By the way, I’m Stephen Sashin, co founder and chief barefoot officer here at Xero Shoes and we call this the Movement Movement. Because we including you. More about that in a second. No pressure, don’t worry. We are creating a movement about movement, natural movement, letting your body do what it’s made to do and functioning optimally as a result. So the way you can help, it’s really straightforward. Spread the word, give us a, you know, good review. Give us a thumbs up on YouTube or thumbs up where you can. Thumbs up hit the bell icon on YouTube so you hear about these things when they come out. Give us a five star review where you can give five star reviews. You know the gist. If you want to be part of the tribe, just subscribe. You can do [email protected] sorry, at jointhemovementmovement.com which is the website. There’s nothing you do have to do there to actually join. It’s just the place where you’ll find previous episodes and a bunch of other information where you can find us online, etc, etc. I think that’s really all I need to say before we get started. And this will be fun. Dr. Angela Walk, a pleasure to have you here. Do me a favor, tell people who the hell you are and what the hell you’re doing here.
Dr. Angela Walk
Thanks Steven. I appreciate you having me here so much. I love having a platform to be able to share this information with people. Just like you said Plantar fasciitis. I don’t know what it is about this condition, but nobody seems to know how to treat it effectively. My name is Dr. Angela Walk. I am a sports chiropractor in Nashville, Tennessee. In my 25th year of practice, I actually no longer have a physical practice and must have my online business specializing in plantar fasciitis. I created a six step program to resolve plantar fasciitis at home.
Steven Sashen
I want to pause there. Let’s just get into the conversation about what we’re talking about, the confusion that people have about it, and then you can pitch to all, you know, whatever you need to do, but no need to do that yet. Let’s just get into it. Let’s get into the things.
Dr. Angela Walk
Sure, sure.
Steven Sashen
Well, let me. Hold on, let me, let me interject. So someone who was listened to this podcast on a regular basis, emailed me and said their wife was looking into issues about plantar fasciitis and found you. And then I looked at your content and went, we need to talk. Because I’ve been talking about this stuff for 16 years and I never heard anyone else talk about it similarly until I bumped into you. So let’s start with. I’m tempted to start with one of two things. One is the cause of plantar fasciitis. But the thing that makes me want to possibly move that a little bit later is the mythology about the cause of plantar fasciitis. Which one of those do you want to tackle first?
Dr. Angela Walk
Well, I, I think the mythology and, and there is just so much misinformation about plantar fasciitis. And you know, if someone just like the person that you mentioned were to want to tackle this condition and they go online, the first things that they’re going to see is let’s possibly get an orthotic. Let’s consider a cortisone shot. Let’s stretch your calf muscles with static stretching. Wear a walking boot, roll your foot on a frozen water bottle. I mean, these are just. And get, and here’s the one that you’ll enjoy that you’ve heard the most. And get a pair of these thick, cushiony, super supportive magic shoes. And this will fix your pf. And what I have discovered that none of those measures actually work. And they’re either short term band aids or they’re ineffective and they do not address the underlying cause. And so, you know, the number one cause of PF, in my opinion, and you know, others will agree, is wearing the wrong shoes. And this is your Jam. Right?
Steven Sashen
This is, you know, this is the thing that it blows my mind is that the thing that is the true cause. And we’ll talk about why, because this is the kind of thing that people go, but my doctor said, well, ignore that for a moment because everything that you and I are going to say, I’m confident is going to have people going, oh, that makes sense.
Dr. Angela Walk
Yeah, yeah. That light goes off. The light bulb goes off in their head and they’re like, oh, you mean I need to wear shoes that are shaped like my feet?
Steven Sashen
We’re not even there yet. We’re. The shape, like your feet is a part of it. But let’s just start with, you know, the shoes being a problem. The thing that blows my mind is when companies are selling a seeming solution that actually is the cause. And we can get into the biomechanics. But let’s. So let’s. Oh, boy, oh, boy. Let’s just talk about the shoe thing. So from your perspective. And then I’ll chime in if I think I have anything to add, and it’ll be awesome if I don’t. From your perspective, what specific things about what the shoes that most people are wearing is the actual cause of this problem.
Dr. Angela Walk
Okay. And a moment ago I alluded to my program and the reason I did that is because I have, you know, this particular program. The first step is to transition to functional footwear. And so what exactly is functional footwear? And that is footwear that is widest at the toe, that allows your foot to function as it should, that allows your feet to spread, your feet and toes to spread and splay as we walk and run. If your feet are unable to spread and splay as we walk and run and we’re cramming our feet into narrow toe boxes, it diminishes and robs your foot of its normal foot function. It creates atrophy and weakness of your. The intrinsic muscles of the foot, which I like to call your foot core, and leads to many foot conditions, not just plantar fasciitis, but bunions, aromas, hammer toes. Anything in the foot is the number one cause, is the narrow toe box.
Steven Sashen
So let’s. Since you mentioned the word orthotics before, and I’m not telling people not to wear them, there’s a time and a place and we can discuss that. But. But for many people, wearing orthotics on a long term basis can be another cause. Can you explain why?
Dr. Angela Walk
Yes. So orthotics are typically one of the first lines of strategy for plantar Fasciitis, and I believe they’re, you know, they’re over prescribed. Number one, there is a time and place, like you mentioned, but they’re also used for way too long. It’s often not an expiration date. It’s like, wear these orthotics and wear them for the rest of your life. So I believe in the early phase of plantar fasciitis, any of these measures that are helped to manage symptoms, that are designed to manage symptoms, is helpful. And I’m okay with that because it is an excruciating, debilitating pain syndrome. Orthotics, however, those are my little puppy dogs in the background. Sorry about that.
Steven Sashen
Oh, no, they’re fine.
Dr. Angela Walk
Orthotics actually rob your feet of normal foot function. I believe there was some early research and many foot practitioners kind of jumped on this research that showed that orthotics, that the cause of plantar fasciitis was excessive pronation. So I think a lot of foot practitioners kind of jumped on that and said, well, if it’s because of over and excessive pronation, then let’s limit pronation. However, what it does, orthotics lift and brace and limit normal movement and it weakens and atrophies the foot muscles.
Steven Sashen
So let’s, let’s.
Dr. Angela Walk
It creates.
Steven Sashen
Yeah, let’s.
Dr. Angela Walk
Lazy feet.
Steven Sashen
Yeah. So I wanna, I wanna highlight this one. So the way I like to say it, I like to say, to ask people, you know, here’s a question that’s gonna sound like a trick question. It’s not. It’s just a stupid question. And the question is, is weaker better than stronger? And people go, no. I go, cool, let’s talk about weaker. If I wanted to make my elbow joint weaker, what do I do? And they go, oh, don’t use it. I mean, people say that verbatim every time. I go, cool, Put your arm in a cast. All the muscles, ligaments and tendons get weaker because the joint isn’t moving. Guess what happens when you, quote, support one of the 33 joints and the 110 plus muscle, ligaments, tendons in your feet? Same thing. And when you try to then put those weakened things under strain, which you can be doing if you’re walking, running, whatever else, then they’re not able to handle that force. And that can create. Well, and we’ll talk about plantar fasciitis being misdiagnosed later, but that can create actual plantar fasciitis. And while I didn’t, I didn’t see that pronation study, but I guarantee it’s flawed for a number of reasons. But the, the one that I love. I posted this, God, literally probably 15 years ago. One of my favorite science writers, and I just sent her an email the other day saying how she’s one of my favorite science writers. Her name is Gina Colada, and she did a whole bunch of research on orthotics and found that they just don’t work. And if they seem to work, it’s for what you said. It’s giving you some relief by not having to use that musculature at all and put it under strain. But as we just pointed out, that makes a vicious cycle of making things weaker and weaker. So. And what people don’t get, I’m going to. I’m going to add a thing to this and see if you agree with this. A Most shoes that people are buying already have arch support built in, so that’s problematic.
Dr. Angela Walk
I was going to make that point. It’s not just orthotics, it’s also the built in arch supports and anti pronation technology in most conventional footwear.
Steven Sashen
And the anti pronation thing thing has never been proven to actually work. And so that’s a whole other conversation. But there’s one that I’ve been talking about and, and pardon me if I’m kind of jumping the gun to see whether you agree or not. And if you don’t, I’m totally cool with that. By the way, at the end of these, you’ll hear me say I’m always wanting someone to recommend, someone who I can bring on the podcast who thinks I’m completely full of. Because that’ll be a really fun conversation. It just hasn’t happened yet. But anyway, so this is one, this is, this is one of a theory of mine. You got a regular shoe with an elevated heel which just naturally changes your gait to over striding and heel striking. Landing with your foot too far in front of your body, your ankle landing in front of your knee when it does, by the time your foot comes down, it’s basically already flat, or as flat as it’s going to be because you’re not able to use your muscles, ligaments and tendons. I’ll say windlass mechanism to be fun for anyone who knows. And if you don’t, don’t worry about it. Basically, it’s a way that if you use your foot properly, it aligns all your bones correctly. It doesn’t matter. High arch, low arch, everything gets aligned correctly. Then you got your plantar fascia in an extended position at a point when you’re supposed to be exerting the most force and they just, it just can’t handle it. And an analogy that I’ve come up with lately, I say to someone, if I ask you to do body weight squats for a minute, could you do it? And they go, yeah. I go, two minutes? They go, yeah. Okay, now I want you to do a wall sit, put your back up against the wall, feet about 2ft in front of you, scooch down to your thighs are palau to the ground. Can you do that for a minute or two minutes? And everyone goes, no. I go, well, that’s what you’re asking your plantar fascia to do when they’re stretched and then put under strain. So it’s a whole different thing than what happens when you’re dynamically moving. Any thoughts on my current theory on another cause?
Dr. Angela Walk
No, I like that and I like the. That’s. That’s exactly what is happening with the plantar fascia is that movement deficiencies, deficiencies that occurring that are occurring further up the kinetic chain are leading to this excessive pronation and it’s putting too much stress on the plantar fascia and it wasn’t designed to withstand that type of pressure. So we could use. One of the most common findings that I see in most all of my patients when assessing my patients is short, tight calf muscles. And so when we’re seeing a tight calf muscle, we see if the, if the calf muscle is too tight and I’ve got a little Yorkie in my lap, sorry about that. She stays more quiet that way. If the calf muscle is short and tight, it limits the amount of ankle mobility or ankle dorsiflexion. Dorsiflexion is the action of bringing the foot towards the shin. If the calf is too tight, it limits ankle dorsiflexion, which causes a collapsing or an over pronation of the foot. Which is what you were talking about instead of the, instead of the heel. Upon heel strike, the heel should evert and this causes these muscles to become more mobile and allows that pronation. But when we go to toe off, the calcaneus of the heel muscle muscles should invert and cause a rigid lever. And that’s what’s not happening. So when we don’t get the rigid lever, we get hypermobility and too much motion here. And all of the stress is placed on that plantar fascia which again was, doesn’t have the capacity to deal with that type of stress. So yes, I agree with that.
Steven Sashen
Yeah. The. Not yet is.
Dr. Angela Walk
The.
Steven Sashen
Is a critical thing. There’s. You know, since you mentioned it that way, my experience has been that more often than not, there’s two things having a tight calf can be. So something further upstream can cause a problem downstream or causing problems in the foot. But I’ve also seen that more often than not, the tight calf is creating symptoms of plantar fasciitis that are not plantar fasciitis and are often misdiagnosed because people aren’t paying attention to the calf. And I have my favorite story that I tell. I was at a trade show a number of years ago. Guy comes up, big guy, like 6, 5, 2, 50, no body fat. He’s a special forces guy. And he said, you know, we’ve all switched to these minimalist shoes, and a lot of us got plantar fasciitis. And I just took one look at him. No, you didn’t. He said, what? I said, your calves are, like, way too tight. And I could just see it from a mile away.
Dr. Angela Walk
Right?
Steven Sashen
And I said, do. Do me a favor. Can I stick my thumb on your calf? He goes, okay. And again, you know, I got a knack for this. I could see the spot. I didn’t have to feel it. I just knew where it was. And I put my thumb on it, and I start to press, and this giant dude falls to the ground. Yeah, I just rub the crap out of his calf.
Dr. Angela Walk
It’s on fire. Yeah.
Steven Sashen
Yeah, it was fun. And I. I just, you know, rubbed the crap out of his calf for about five minutes. And I said, get up and see how that feels. And he goes, oh, my God. That’s like 90% better. I said, cool, Go back to the base, talk to your pt, have her do that to all you guys for about a week, and let me know what. What happens. And he. He. I bumped into him a year later, and he said, my plantar fasciitis went away. I said, you never had plantar fasciitis. You had tight calves. You hadn’t gotten to the point of having plantar fasciitis because your feet were pretty strong. You were just having symptoms that looked like it, and no one knew any better. And that’s the one that I mean. And I’ve seen people, even after I show that to them, because I look like this and I don’t have the letters D R period before my name, they still go get surgery.
Dr. Angela Walk
Yeah.
Steven Sashen
So.
Dr. Angela Walk
Well, I. You know, the two most common causes of short, tight calf muscles that I have seen is number one is elevation in heel elevation and footwear. And so you know that. And we’re not just talking about women’s high heels. We’re talking about men’s shoes and casual shoes. And running shoes have a minimum of 5 millimeters, but often as much as 10 millimeters, which is the industry standard. And it’s baffling to me why shoe manufacturers add heel elevation in footwear. Because there is no that. There’s no foundation for that.
Steven Sashen
But do you know how it happened? Because I can tell you.
Dr. Angela Walk
Well, it. It happened with a running shoe. Correct. And I’d love to hear the story. Yeah.
Steven Sashen
So this is common knowledge among a small group of people, and we’ve all tried to spread the word, but it doesn’t go very far. So way back when Bill Barrowman and Nike, they were just getting started, they were sharing a building with some podiatrists, and Bowerman says, I’m getting these runners with Achilles tendonitis. What do you recommend? And the guys said, oh, clearly their Achilles have shortened from wearing higher heel dress shoes. So put a wedge of foam in there to accommodate their shortened Achilles.
Dr. Angela Walk
Right.
Steven Sashen
Cut to. Well, before I cut to. The footwear industry is a bunch of copycats. They’re terrified. They’re not very creative very often. So if something starts to sell really well, everyone else is, like, on it, like John Rice before, because they’re afraid they’ll go out of business. Otherwise. If everyone gets into that whole elevated heel thing, we better do it, or else we’re going to be.
Dr. Angela Walk
That’s right.
Steven Sashen
When the barefoot Boom started in 2009, when it was literally about running barefoot, shoe companies are saying, oh, my God, we got to do something. Otherwise, people will never buy shoes again. They’re freaking out. Okay, so cut to 30 years later when a friend of mine who worked directly with Bowerman at Nike was sitting at a track meet with one of these doctors, and he said. And so again, I kind of skipped over. Once they did the elevated heel thing, everyone started doing it. It’s been become ubiquitous. So my friend is sitting at a track meet with one of these doctors, and he said, you know, your idea became adopted by every major shoe company. Everyone’s been doing it for the last 50 years. What do you think about that? He said, it was the biggest mistake we ever made.
Dr. Angela Walk
Right.
Steven Sashen
Had no evidence for the Achilles shortening. And I’ll say something about that. We had no evidence or understanding of what the elevated heel would do to changing people’s gait to cause problems. And we were making prosthetics for everything. So we just looked at this immediate problem as needing a prosthetic solution without having done the research. And part of the research that I wish they had done would have been testing this whole thing about whether people’s Achilles actually shortened or if, like, when you get your arm out of a cast, it takes your brain a while to remember that it can move the arm can. You can have someone move it passively and it can be okay, but you can’t necessarily move it because your brain has learned to protect it. And I see it in runners in my neighborhood, even if they have a higher heel shoe, they’re not even let their Achilles stretch enough to let the heel come down to the ground in a higher heeled shoe. And then they put on something flat and they go, oh, see, this is hurting my Achilles. Like, no, no, no. Your brain just hasn’t given you the information that it’s safe to let it stretch, or you haven’t given your brain information to let it know that it’s safe.
Dr. Angela Walk
Yeah, and I liked your terminology with micro dosing, because people who are coming from. I read that in one of your blog posts or heard it on a podcast. But that’s so true. When people are coming from footwear with 10 or 12 millimeters of heel elevation to zero drop, it’s got to be a slow roll, because that calf in Achilles reacts to that. And when you were describing the runners that were going from, you know, traditional running shoes into the zero drop, zero drop, and having, you know, thinking that they had developed plantar fasciitis, I’m thinking, you know, your body has. Your foot and lower leg have not adapted to functioning as they should at the normal tension and strength of the Achilles and gastroc and soleus.
Steven Sashen
In fact, you know, something happened to me about a month ago that I hadn’t really thought of in this context until just now that really highlights this because it’s not only the ability to stretch, but the ability to do that under load and at a certain speed. So I’m a competitive sprinter. I was at a track meet. I’m warming up, I’m running. Everything felt great. I mean, I really was really looking forward to this race. And I decided to get out of the blocks once, just to do a start from the blocks once before the race started. Now, when I set my blocks, I set the angle at 45 degrees. The blocks I had at this track meet had either 40 or 50. And for some reason, I decided, let’s just set it to 50. And when I did my first start out of the blocks, the speed with which I got that little bit of extra strength was more than my brain was used to. And it just seized my calf. I didn’t pull anything. Yeah, I didn’t strain anything. It just seized up going, whoa, whoa. Too much, too soon, too fast.
Dr. Angela Walk
And I was too much, too soon, too fast. Exactly.
Steven Sashen
And I was really annoyed because I wanted to have that race, but.
Dr. Angela Walk
Right, right.
Steven Sashen
But it’s a lesson, like at, you know, and. And this is someone who’s really used to a lot of Achilles stretch, a lot of Achilles force, but that little bit of extra. At that speed, everyone, my brain went, whoa, whoa, whoa. Can’t do that. Actually, it was a reflex art thing, not even up to my brain. But suffice it to say, you know, you. Yeah, you’ve gotta. You can’t. Now, there are ways of accelerating the process of getting used to having your Achilles move more, which is like Feldenkrais work and things, where it basically tricks your brain into remembering that, oh, that’s safe. But even still, there’s still, you know, take your time, get used to something, etc. Etc.
Dr. Angela Walk
So. Yeah, so. So, you know, the. That first step in my program is to transition to functional footwear. And so I just want people to understand that, number one, we need to get your. Get you into shoes that allow your feet to function normally with a wide toe box and zero drop. And I know, obviously a lot of your listeners, you know, know a lot about that and have, you know, know a ton about that, including you. But I feel like if people were finding this podcast, I want them to understand that, number one, you know, when you’re wearing a shoe that’s narrow at the toe and has a tremendous amount of elevation of the heel, the very shoe that you were told to get to resolve your PF is making your plantar fasciitis worse or hindering your recovery.
Steven Sashen
Yeah, I mean, it could, you know, again, immobility can feel good for a time. Orthotics weren’t made to be worn full time. They were made for when you do have an actual tissue injury. The same way you’d put your arm in a cast rather than putting your foot in a cast. Let’s just immobilize it as much as we can. Not entirely.
Dr. Angela Walk
And I use the cast analogy. Yeah, for sure. I love that because, you know, the cast is. Is not all. It’s essential and necessary and initially. But once you remove the cast, then you’ve got to Start strengthening the muscles and the soft tissues that have been weakened from the immobility and that have atrophied. And so, you know, when people first come into the program and they’re wearing foot orthotics, I don’t just have them ditch them immediately. You know, we slowly transition them out of it as they are actively working on strengthening the muscles in the feet and in the lower leg and mobilizing those ankle joints and getting greater flexibility and, and when that and their pain begins to diminish and as that happens, then we start to say, hey, take Those out for 15 to 20 minutes and give yourself a go. You know, give it a go. Then put them back in and let’s do that for a little while. And just like you said, a little micro dosing. Don’t do too, too much, too fast, too soon. And that’s, that’s the way we deal with orthotic support. And you know, because as we mentioned earlier, they’ve been wearing footwear with the built in arch supports and they’ll say, hey, what about Birkenstocks? You know, it’s the same sort of thing. They are better, they do have a little bit wider toe box than most, but they still have the art support, you know, the built in art support.
Steven Sashen
Yeah, yeah, one of the, one of the, in those 15 minute bouts. One thing I, I say to people, if you can find somewhere that has like pea gravel walk on that. Because the only way to do that, you can’t, it’s, it’s unpleasant to over stride and heel strike. So you end up putting your feet more underneath your center of mass and engaging those muscles at a point where they’re already slightly strong to begin with. So it’s a way of strengthening. That’s a fun one. And I’ve had some people who’ve just gone out and bought a big, you know, 20 pound, 50 pound bag of pea Ravel and put it somewhere, put it like in a box so they could do it inside, somewhere outside so they could, they could do that. So, so we’ve talked about causes and I hope people get that. The fundamental thing we’re talking about. Oh, and by the way, even people who are, who are not necessarily barefoot shoe friendly and I know a few of them, I, we don’t talk about that too much, but they’re the first ones to say, look, if, if you, if you thought about this like going to physical therapy and the physical therapist said okay, great, I want you to wear these orthotics when you’re at Home. When you get back into pt, they’re going to take those out and they’re going to mobilize your foot and do all the things you’re talking about strength.
Dr. Angela Walk
Right.
Steven Sashen
Flexibility and dynamic motion. They’re just letting your foot rest when it needs to rest, and then you work on it in the clinic. And over time, they’re going to have you wear it less and less. And even, I mean, Ben O’Nig, who’s not been a huge fan of barefoot things, will say the whole point of an orthotic is to get out of it and build up strength again. And if you build up strength, you’ll never need them again. So that’s the cause side of things. And we. But we did both the mythology and the reality of that. On the cure side of things. Let’s talk about some of the mythology. And you alluded to one a couple times, which is static stretching. So that’s the first one that makes my head explode.
Dr. Angela Walk
Okay.
Steven Sashen
Talk about whatever.
Dr. Angela Walk
Yeah. I mentioned earlier that, you know, when assessing most of my patients, they typically all have some degree of tightness in their calf muscles.
Steven Sashen
Sure.
Dr. Angela Walk
And so when they’re prescribed static stretching, oftentimes the remedy and what they hear is to stretch your calf muscles three times a day with static stretching and ice your foot three times a day. And we can get back to why icing is not the best method. But static stretching has its place. But for rehabilitation, strengthening is far superior to stretching. And even people will say, but my calf muscles are short. Yes, but I recommend active or dynamic stretching and even strengthening techniques. If you strengthen a muscle, you can lengthen the muscle. In my program, I recommend eccentric loading, which is a method of putting load on a muscle during the lengthening or slowly lowering part, and that also lengthens the muscle. So static stretching, let me define. That would be like a yoga stretch. 30, holding a stretch for 30 to 60 seconds. Active stretching incorporates movement or motion. And if you’re a runner, you are familiar with how we used to recommend static stretching for everything, and now it’s kind of shifted to active stretching. And I see you, you know, kind of rolling your eyes a little bit. But it’s the same with rehabilitation efforts. Strengthening has greater benefits for, you know, elongating and creating healthy muscle. So that is, you know, what, what we recommend. And again, static stretching has its place, and people love it, and it just feels good. But to get the biggest bang for your buck, focus on strengthening the muscles in the lower leg, leg, the gastrocnemius, the soleus, and The Achilles.
Steven Sashen
Yeah. And so an example for. Of eccentric. I’ll do it outside of feet first because it’ll be easy for people to understand. Think about doing a curl. So the concentric is lifting it up, the eccentric is lowering it down. And the interesting thing, many people confuse just lowering slowly with eccentric, which is not the case. The whole value about eccentric is that you’re stronger in that lowering phase than you are in the lifting phase. So imagine you’re doing a curl and you’re curling up £20. I’m making up a number for the fun of it. What you could control on the way down could be £30, £40. I mean, much, much more. And the evidence is that that creates strength better as the muscle is lengthening. So it’s training your brain. Oh, that lengthening thing is safe. So a similar thing would be. And I’m going to ask you to do a correction for how people will take. What I’m going to say is if you were standing on a stair and elevating your toes, I mean, elevating up, lifting your heels up, that’s the concentric eccentric is the lowering down part. Now, if you’re not ready for that, you got to do that just right. But that’s one example for doing eccentric strengthening for the calf. And in fact, one way of doing it would be go up on both feet and then just down on one foot so you’re getting the extra load. But talk about how to help people deal with that in the real world if they’ve. If they’re dealing with, you know, seeming PF issues.
Dr. Angela Walk
Yeah. And that’s actually one of the exercises, those two exercises that you mentioned. The first is the concentric, which is coming, but a calf raise just coming up on both toes and the eccentric. And I do recommend the just coming down on one leg because that increases the load. Just as the example you were showing with the biceps and. Yeah. And that. We get great results with that.
Steven Sashen
That was easy. Is there. Are there anything to be cautious about if they’re going to try that when they go home tonight?
Dr. Angela Walk
Yeah. And I typically, as I mentioned, it’s, you know, it’s a slow roll. People often are very weak in their calf muscles. And so I do recommend just kind of starting with the calf raise. Just a typical calf raise. I recommend squeezing the ball between your heels. This helps to activate the posterior tibialis tendon and the peroneal tendons. And these are often a part of the complex of plantar fasciitis. And that’s just, you Know having a ball, putting a ball between your heels and squeezing it as you’re going up into a calf raise.
Steven Sashen
I’ll give a personal endorsement for going slow. Excuse me. At one, I don’t remember how it happened, but I was doing some exercise program and it involved calf raises. And I did. I did them till I couldn’t. I did until I got to failure, which basically.
Dr. Angela Walk
Right.
Steven Sashen
Was about 150. And it felt. Felt fine. I mean, really no big deal until the next day, right? Yeah, it was. It was a while till I could walk like a human being. But so it is easy for some people, I have found, to really overdo it and really not know it till the next day. And, you know, I joke that the problem with the idea of don’t do too much too soon is you only know if you’ve done that when you did it, you’ve done too much too soon. Yeah.
Dr. Angela Walk
So start small.
Steven Sashen
Like, you know, start small, see how you feel the next day. Build up slowly because calves unlike any other, because we use them all the time, so they’re built really to handle a lot of repetition in a way that, you know, your biceps or your whatever else aren’t. So you can get faked out by thinking that it’s cool and not so cool the next day. So. Okay, so other. Anything else on the mythology about the cure. Cures that people are usually offered and by the way, when There was a SkyMall magazine, it used to completely make my head explode that there was at least 10 ads for different or similar products for basically just doing static stretching for plantar fasciitis. Something. I mean, just crazy ideas.
Dr. Angela Walk
Well, that, I mean, the few industry. And. And these other types of devices, sleeves, braces, all of these different types of supports, are making millions off of people with plantar fasciitis. Because is this. It is so painful and debilitating and people. And there’s so much conflicting information. They’re just not really. Which, you know, which way to turn. And honestly, you know, these type of passive approaches do nothing to change your condition. They do not improve strength, they do not improve tissue quality, and they do not make your foot more resilient. So I have on a daily basis, 10, 15 emails. What do you think about this particular compressive, you know, compression sleeve? Or what do you think about, you know, this shoe and that shoe or this orthotic? And so, you know, people are just really lost. And, and, and it’s understandable because that’s all the information that’s out there.
Steven Sashen
Yeah, you Know, by the way, it just occurred to me I’m going to back up way far to the beginning of our conversation. I don’t know if this is true or not, but it occurred to me that it might be. And I’m curious about what your opinion is. Some people might end up getting. I mean, I brought up the idea before that tight calves are mistaken for plantar fasciitis or the tight calves could cause plantar fasciitis. Is the thing that you brought up as well. I’m wondering how much tight calves are actually an effect of an initial bit of strain on the plantar fascia, basically trying to compensate for some, you know, like something before you even notice that you have something that would be plantar fasciitis. And we can talk about plantar fasciitis versus fasciosis. We’ll do that too. But maybe you get like a little strain in the plantar fascia and the calf tightens to try to protect that. And then there may be, you know, kind of an. A bad feedback loop doing that. So it may be that that’s actually a symptom as much as it is a cause or a faux cause, if you will. Do you have any thoughts about that?
Dr. Angela Walk
It’s kind of chicken or the egg sort of thing. Does it, you know, does.
Steven Sashen
It’s really.
Dr. Angela Walk
No. Does it.
Steven Sashen
It’s pretty academic, but it just popped in my head. I was wondering.
Dr. Angela Walk
Yeah. And you know, what I have found, too, is that it’s something like what you’re talking about. It’s compensations.
Steven Sashen
Yeah.
Dr. Angela Walk
When. When we talk about compensations, we’re talking about when one part of the body is failing or not functioning normally. Our body has to borrow an action from another part of the body to complete the action. And that other part of the body may not be designed or capable of handling that stress. So in other words, if one part of the body’s not working as it should, there’s a compensatory action. You got to steal an action for over here, and then it puts too much stress on this place, and then there you have the breakdown. So it is kind of, you know, it’s kind of hard to determine, you know, did the breakdown occur here first and cause the calf muscles to react, or was it the tight calf muscles that caused. And the plantar fascia to react? Yeah, yeah.
Steven Sashen
Ultimately academic, because what the important thing on the treatment is going to be the same. And actually, when you said it that way, I’m reframing my theory anyway, to be that if you are wearing something that. That isn’t orthotic or is something supporting the plantar fascia, that the fact that there is no. That there’s. That laxity in those tendons could make the calf try to take over again. Right. Hadn’t thought of it that. With that version of the loop before. So. Okay. Any other things on the mythology side for treatment?
Angela Walk
Well, I did. We alluded to a moment ago regarding plantar fasciitis versus plantar fasciosis.
Steven Sashen
Wait, pause on that. Because there’s one that we didn’t mention. Ice, or you mentioned, but we didn’t dive into. Let’s talk about icing.
Dr. Angela Walk
That’s right. So that’s. That’s what I’d like to get into. So any health condition that has the suffix at the end itis indicates an inflammatory response. So in the case of plantar fasciitis, following that rule, it would be an inflammation of the plantar fascia, which is the connective tissue on the bottom of the foot. However, about 20 years ago, there was some extensive studies by a prominent podiatrist. His name was Harvey Lamont. He did a study on 50 patients with chronic PF, and in every case, he found no inflammation. And so this kind of flipped the script a little bit. Right? I mean, it was a, you know, a discovery that no one had really thought about before. So if that’s the case, and there’s no inflammation in these chronic plantar fasciitis patients, and we’re treating it with rolling your foot on a frozen water bottle with ice, getting cortisone. Cortisone shots, resting, completely bracing it, then you’re not treating the underlying cause. A more appropriate name would be plantar fasciosis, which indicates fasciotic tissue or cellular death. So what he discovered is that a particular muscle, some soft tissues, were encroaching on one of the primary arteries to the foot, mainly due to narrow toe box shoes, and it cut off the blood supply. So wherever beyond where that blood flow was being encroached, the cells were dying. That is called fasciotic tissue. So that was his discovery. And so it changed the way, really, that we think about plantar fasciitis forever. So, you know, treating that. Let me say this, with any injury, there’s always an inflammatory response, right? Initially, initially, and it may be just a few days. But if you have had plantar fasciitis for longer than two to three weeks, inflammation is not your problem. So that. That’s big stuff, because you know, I can remember when I was first treating people with pf, and I didn’t really have some of this knowledge. We were all telling everybody to ice their foot three times a day, and this was only further restricting necessary circulation, but also prolonging healing.
Steven Sashen
Yeah.
Dr. Angela Walk
So, I mean, you know, and this was a big debate in the rehab world, and all of us now are coming around to that. You know, we all learn to put ice on an. Any musculoskeletal skeletal injury within the first 24 to 48 hours and beyond. You know, if you sprain your ankle, if you twist your knee, if you hurt your back, you put ice on it, and you keep putting ice on it. And we know now that that is not the best method.
Steven Sashen
It’s. It’s often misrepresented. Like, I had both of my shoulders put back together. Thank you for being a gymnast way back when. And so. Okay, so, you know, they had a. A. An ice machine that I had on practically 24/7.
Dr. Angela Walk
Right.
Steven Sashen
But they were pretty clear. It’s like, it’s less about. Let’s say it’s not so much about the inflammation for what we just did to put you back together. It’s for the inflammation around everything else for what we did to get to where we had to put you together, but also for just dealing with the pain. We’re numbing the crap out.
Dr. Angela Walk
It numbs the area. Yeah. And so that’s another one of those things that, you know, patients say, hey, it just feels good and it hurts less.
Steven Sashen
Right.
Dr. Angela Walk
You know, kind of going back to the orthotic issue. You know, if that’s the case. And we’re just trying to get you through this to get out of pain, or they’ll come to me and say, document. I’ve got to have some. Something for pain. You know, I just went and had a cortisone shot, and I feel better. I know it’s not helping anything, and it could have some considerable side effects, but I feel better, and I can get out of the bed without excruciating pain. So, you know, what do you say to that? Hey, do that. But let’s get busy. Let’s get busy working on the strength of your foot and targeting what’s causing your issues.
Steven Sashen
Yeah, I. I mean, it is interesting, the whole icing thing, because even in my early gymnast days. So literally 50 years ago, because I’m old. 50 years ago, if we got an injury, which we did all the time, we didn’t just do ice. We did ice alternating with heat. So it was just about just enough ice until things got a little red and then heat to keep things moving. So it was about keeping the circulation going. And I want to highlight something. You said that that is huge. And people don’t really appreciate it because we don’t have an experience of it. And that is when you squeeze your toes together, when you basically invert that first big. That big toe, when you push that into the middle, it literally does shut down a bunch of circulation into your foot.
Dr. Angela Walk
Yeah.
Steven Sashen
And that is an. I mean, it’s crazy town. You would never do that to any other part of your body. And the problem is we just don’t feel the effect of it fast enough to recognize that’s what we did. Especially if you’re only in pointy toe shoes. You don’t even have a choice or that. Or you don’t think you have a choice. And so you wouldn’t notice it anyway because you’ve kind of habituated to this thing that is. Can be a cause of, like you said, that cellular death. That is plantar fasci. Fasciosis, even though we call it fasciitis. Whatever. Not the important.
Dr. Angela Walk
- I know. I. To keep it simple and just. I. I’ve always just kind of referred to it as that. But I make a point and I’m. I’m very intentional about educating my patients on. On the difference.
Steven Sashen
Yeah. And then they can be obnoxious at dinner parties by going, no, I have plantar fasciosis, you idiot.
Dr. Angela Walk
Then I’d have to change my name to the plantar fasciosis doc.
Steven Sashen
Yeah. Then nobody would find you. So that, that.
Dr. Angela Walk
That’s right. You know what? That’s. That’s part of my thought process there.
Steven Sashen
Well, you know, it’s like people argue about, well, barefoot shoes. You’re either barefoot or you’re in shoes. Well, look, I didn’t make up the search term. That’s what people started looking for. If we’re going to. If we’re going to sell a product, we have to be in front of people when they’re looking for you.
Dr. Angela Walk
Yeah.
Steven Sashen
Just the way it is. And so anything else that we can think of on sort of causes and treatment, because I think we’ve really nailed it. Unless I’m.
Dr. Angela Walk
Yeah, there was a couple of things you mentioned. Barefoot walking. And I, I wanted to talk a little bit about that because it’s part of my program. And when people in the early phase of PF, where they’re in a ton of pain, even thinking about walking barefoot Terrifying is excruciating. And however, walking barefoot is one of the healthiest things you can do for your feet, and it naturally strengthens your foot and your foot core. And I also recommend toe spacers. And that is a tool that is designed to stretch and realign your toes to broaden the base of the foot from the damaging effects of narrow toe shoes. But it also helps to activate the arch muscles and gives you natural arch support. So I do recommend for people to slowly begin to introduce their feet to barefoot walking. Even, you know, sadly, I have such a great outreach now, and I’m in contact with so many people with pf and they all. Many of them will say, I was told to never walk barefoot, that before my feet even hit the floor, I need to put on my shoes. And the only time that I shouldn’t wear shoes is in the shower. And so, you know, they wear these foot coffins. And so I’m trying to just sort of completely flip that and say, hey, we want you to not wear shoes as much as you can. Start with five minutes, work up to 10 minutes. You know, work up to 15 minutes. But that’s one of the healthiest things that you can do to strengthen your feet.
Steven Sashen
Agreed. Then the research is very clear, even in a truly minimalist shoe. And I want to highlight something about that. And a second. Yeah, just walking in a minimalist shoe builds foot strength as much as doing an exercise program, which doesn’t mean you don’t need to or shouldn’t do both, because the study didn’t have a cohort that did both to show the effects of that. Yeah, but. And this is not rocket science. It’s use it or lose it. Like we said, support things. They get. Use them, they get stronger. And use them more. They get stronger, more. The highlight I want to make is there. In the last mostly five years, there have been more and more companies coming on with shoes that they’re calling minimalist or barefoot that fundamentally often are not. And the big thing that they’re doing, I’ll say incorrectly or that are. That violates the principle of a truly barefoot shoe is the soles are too thick and too much cushioning. And this was true back in 2010 when the big shoe companies were doing this and saying, hey, it’s a barefoot shoe. And it’s like, no, no, too much cushion, too narrow, for example, as well. And the. The reason this is a problem is twofold. We talked about it, but I’ll highlight it. One, those things aren’t as flexible, so you’re not getting the motion that you need and you’re also not getting the feedback through that foam that your brain needs to know how to move things properly. And it’s, on the one hand, you know, more power to all of us for getting the word out. But it does muddy the waters a bit in a way that is problematic. I mean, Irene Davis’s research when she was at Harvard showed that what she called a partial minimalist shoe, too narrow, usually in the mid foot or too much cushioning is the worst thing for you because it’s not enough cushioning to protect you from the bad form that you will still have because you’re not getting the feedback from that shoe. So just wanted to highlight that.
Dr. Angela Walk
Yeah. And they call them a transitional shoe, except that it’s. And it is a shoe shoe that, you know, it’s defined as a shoe that has the characteristics of a barefoot shoe but with more cushioning.
Steven Sashen
Yeah. And they call it a transitional shoe because that, in fact, I think it was Adidas. Or again, if you’re going to be obnoxious at a dinner party and say plantar fasciotis, fasciosis, double down on your obnoxiousness and call the company Adidas, because that’s what it really is. Adidasler. Anyway. Right. They, they came up with that term because they weren’t going to go to a truly quote barefoot shoe. Right. They actually said, if you’re starting at 10 mil, go from 10 to 7 to 5 to 3 as a way of selling more shoes. That did not produce the benefits that they were claiming.
Dr. Angela Walk
Yeah, yeah.
Steven Sashen
So it’s. And there’s a bunch of research that’s come out lately that’s not great because a lot of this research is not looking at the right thing. And what I mean by that is what we’re really talking about when I talk about footwear, we’re talking about form more than footwear. It’s just that certain footwear informs your form differently. And very little of the research on this is actually looking at gait and looking at force production during the gate cycle. So there are some people saying, oh, you know, transitional shoe, which they don’t even define, clearly can be helpful, but it’s, I would argue, more helpful to just go cold turkey, except in very short bouts. Again, like we talked about micro dosing, like you’re saying orthotics, go barefoot for five minutes. Same thing. You don’t need to go lower, lower, lower. Just go all the way down and just a little bit at a time, building it up as you feel you’re ready.
Dr. Angela Walk
Yeah. Yeah.
Steven Sashen
I mean, this is, you know, it’s so funny. Like, we. We don’t even think about this in other contexts. Or more accurately, this all makes sense in other contexts. Like, you go to the gym, you haven’t been for a while, you don’t throw £300 on the bar and try to squat. You put.
Dr. Angela Walk
Right, right.
Steven Sashen
Put something on the bar where you hope no one who knows you sees you because it’s so embarrassingly light. And you do a few reps and you hope no one sees you, especially someone you might think is attractive. And then you do one set and you get out of there before they know you were even in town. And then you again, you build it up slowly as you can. Makes total sense in the gym. Now, granted, a bunch of bros will go in there and, you know, load up what they were doing in college, saying, I can still do that. It’s like, okay.
Dr. Angela Walk
Yeah. And I’m not opposed to a transitional shoe. In the early phase of pf, when they first come into the program and they’re. They’ve been wearing a stack height of 30 millimeters or higher.
Steven Sashen
Yeah.
Dr. Angela Walk
You know, I mean, most of the shoes that unfortunately, that most practitioners will recommend for plantar fasciitis have a minimum of 30 millimeters and up to 38 millimeters of stack height. And so there are some brands, and I don’t know if I can mention those here, but like Ultra Flux footwear, these are some transitional shoes.
Steven Sashen
I want to be clear about that because Altra has now started making super thick things as well. So let’s be.
Dr. Angela Walk
They have.
Steven Sashen
Yeah. And so let’s be clear, first of all, when we talk about.
Dr. Angela Walk
And they also have added heel elevation to. I know some of their footwear, which just broke my heart, but not as.
Steven Sashen
Much as the founders, who are friends of mine. I mean, they’re very unhappy, but there.
Dr. Angela Walk
Was some changes that went down there. But. Yeah, but I. There are some ultras that do have, you know, 20 millimeters, 23 millimeters of stack height. And starting there is not terrible. But as you progress in my program, I recommend a full transition to barefoot or zero drop footwear or no little to no stack height.
Steven Sashen
Yeah. And to be clear, for people who don’t know stack height, the easiest way to think of it is the distance between the ground and you and your. The bottom of your foot. Not entirely.
Dr. Angela Walk
And this would be an example of a transitional shoe. It is zero drop, and it does have a wide toe box. But this is stack height. It is the amount of material on the bottom of the shoe.
Steven Sashen
Yeah. And there was another point that I was going to make about that, but I can’t remember it. So that’s okay.
Dr. Angela Walk
Yeah. You know, I have some little visual aids here and it kind of prompted me to remember. And one thing that I recommend for my patients to do is to try the shoe liner test for them to.
Steven Sashen
I’m going to argue with this one. Significantly do it. But I’m going to argue. I’m going to have it. We’re going to not going to have an argument, but I’m going to point out the, the problem with this one. But.
Dr. Angela Walk
Well, okay, but here’s what I recommend, here’s what I recommend for people to do. Go take the top. The five shoes that you wear most often.
Steven Sashen
Yeah.
Dr. Angela Walk
Lay the insole out on the floor and if your feet or toes extend over the shoe liner, then that is contributing to your plantar fasciitis. Now, I’m not, I only refer to the toe box. So what was your argument there? I’m curious.
Steven Sashen
Well, my argument is that people are using that information differently. They’re using it to determine whether or not a barefoot shoe is going to fit and.
Dr. Angela Walk
Oh, oh, I see.
Steven Sashen
And that’s the problem is that because people are looking at a two dimensional thing. And first of all, look, the, the liner of the shoe is by definition more narrow than the shoe because it fitting.
Dr. Angela Walk
It is. Right.
Steven Sashen
And secondly, your foot is a three dimensional thing and so is the shoe. So there are many shoes where the sole, especially a minimal shoe, can, your foot can extend past the width of the sole appropriately. The shoe is designed for that and the shoe will fit. So people use this thing of like. And even more, they’ll put their foot on the insole and then spread their toes as much as they can go. It’s like, no, no, no, that’s not what your foot ever really does.
Dr. Angela Walk
Right, right.
Steven Sashen
So my favorite story about this is not even someone coming in and putting their foot on the insole and saying, hey, it’s not wide enough for me. But someone came up to us at a trade show and said, I’m a Ford ee. Can I try on your shoes? And we went, yeah, I don’t know.
Dr. Angela Walk
Wow.
Steven Sashen
It’s just a two dimensional measurement and your foot and the shoe are three dimensional. So he, we said, we don’t know. He goes, let me try. And he put on one of our shoes and it fit him perfectly because he had a wide foot 2 dimensionally. A lower volume foot, 3 dimensionally, the circumference was smaller than somebody with a very high arch, for example. So we’ve seen that often. So now I have a, I get that I’ve got a patent for a way of solving this problem, but I can’t say more than that at the moment.
Dr. Angela Walk
Okay, well, I think the point that I like to, I use it to prove a point, the shoe liner test, to say, hey, take the insole out of those brooks and stand on it. And, and you’ll see. Or. And then take the insole out of your Xero shoes and compare the two. Well, right.
Steven Sashen
You held up a shoe before. And I just do the simple version. I just hold up a pointy toe shoe and go, is that the shape of your foot?
Dr. Angela Walk
Right.
Steven Sashen
Like, you know, sometimes with like a new balance, they go, well, it’s wide at the ball of my foot, but then it gets pointy. I go, if that’s the shape of your foot, guess what? It ain’t supposed to be.
Dr. Angela Walk
Right. Right. I’ll have. Patients will ask, I got a wide shoe. Isn’t that the same as a wide toe box shoe? Well, no, a wide shoe is widest at the forefoot and wider throughout the shoe, but not widest at the toe.
Steven Sashen
Well, I also, you can feel free to use this line if you like it. After I point at their shoes and go, is that the shape of your foot? And they go, no. I go, cool. What problems might you have at the end of the day, the week or a year by shoving a foot shape thing called, you know, a foot, like your foot into a non foot shaped thing? And I literally do this. I put my fingers like over their shoe and to kind of emphasize it. And then they’ll spend the next five minutes telling me about all the foot problems they had that they thought were just natural. It’s like, right? No, they’re not. So that’s like our first wake up. All right, wait, you had any other, any other things to show and tell? You said you had other visual.
Dr. Angela Walk
Well, I, another, I think critical part of my program is addressing the fascial system. And that is a deeper conversation. But I do, but it’s one of my favorite topics. It’s something that I have been using and addressing in my practice for 25 years very successfully. And I use it. I teach people how to remove fascial adhesions in their foot and lower leg using a fascia release tool on themselves. And plantar fasciitis is, can be a repetitive strain in an overuse strain where you’re putting too much stress on your feet.
Steven Sashen
Yeah.
Dr. Angela Walk
And when that occurs, adhesions occur in the fascia. And that’s just an important part of my program is to release that. And people see significant improvements because it is often the source of their pain and immobility. Often when people are experiencing tightness in their muscles, it’s really restricted fascia.
Steven Sashen
Yeah. And for people who don’t know, I’ll do the world’s fastest version. You can elaborate. The fascia is basically, it’s not only a covering of around the muscles, but around pretty much every organ you have, but also it goes through the muscles as well. Think of it like. I’ll do the world’s worst analogy. Think of that like a sausage casing. And then just imagine that. Yeah.
Dr. Angela Walk
Oh, that works.
Steven Sashen
Yeah, it’s not bad. And then just take a part of that sausage casing and make it extra tight for some reason, just like a little, you know, piece of it. That’s kind of what we’re talking about. Yeah. And. And for vegetarians out there, my apologies.
Dr. Angela Walk
Yeah. I mean, fascia should glide smoothly and when it adheres, it becomes rigid and tight and usually the source of restriction. So pretty important part of resolving plantar fasciitis is to kind of dig into those adhesions and scar tissue that form from repetition and from wearing the wrong shoes and that sort of thing.
Steven Sashen
Given. Given what we’ve done in this conversation where I know. I’m. I was going to say not stepping on toes when I say it this way, knowing that you are a smart human being. I know that you will. I’m. I will put. I’ll put money on the fact that you’re going to agree with me about this one. That many people who’ve heard about planet about fascia and have heard about fascial release, they hear about it like, oh, just roll over a lacrosse ball or some variation thereof. And that. Right. What we’re talking about.
Dr. Angela Walk
Yeah. The difference in rolling the lacrosse ball and using fascia release is it’s a very specific or targeted technique where you locate the adhesions. And when you have adhesion development, it’s usually very tender. So let’s take, for example, an elbow condition where, you know, overuse issue of the elbow. When you have healthy tissue, it’s usually very smooth. When it’s unhealthy, it’s rigid and bumpy and tender. So this technique, using a stainless steel instrument versus, like a lacrosse ball, we’re actually targeting those adhesions and restoring that normal motion, which is why it’s called instrument assisted soft tissue mobilization. You’re mobilizing, mobilizing that tissue. I also encourage movement and motion. So, for example, you’d be going into this. Kind of hard to describe with that, but you would be.
Steven Sashen
We’ll do an easy one. So let’s just do the. The motion part first. That will. Here we’ll break it down. So one version is using again, a device like you’re showing, which is just think of a big metal spoon for people who are just listening. Just start. So imagine that you’re moving this spoon along your calf and you find a spot that feels tight and is painful. So the motion part could be flexing and pointing your toes and flexing your foot.
Dr. Angela Walk
That’s right.
Steven Sashen
And then if you add the movement part with that spoon, as you’re moving the spoon back and forth along the calf at the same time. So you’re getting this double whammy of trying to make things a little more flexible while you’re going through a range of motion where it could impact what you’re doing.
Dr. Angela Walk
This is the better. Restores mobility.
Steven Sashen
Yes, this is exactly right. This is the way smart people are doing it. There’s a lot of people who are not that smart. So. Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Angela Walk
And you’re a runner, right? I’m sure most runners have one of these.
Steven Sashen
No, no, I’m a sprinter. I’m not a runner. I run 160. I don’t take turns. I don’t know. Yeah, I don’t have a GPS watch, so I don’t even take turns on the track is the way I say it. I don’t like getting lost. I. I go very short distance as fast as I can.
Dr. Angela Walk
Yeah. Not a runner here. I’m an avid pickleball player. And. And I want to ask you about some of your new versus for. For pickleball and maybe a different topic.
Steven Sashen
Well, here it’s really easy. We released this basketball shoe that’s being called the X1X1.
Dr. Angela Walk
That was my question for you.
Steven Sashen
So we, we made it as a basketball shoe and people in the NBA and WNBA are wearing it. And a lot more are going to be doing it by next season. We, not surprisingly, it’s just a great court shoe. People are using it for tennis, they’re using it for pickleball. They’re using it for. Pretty much. Yeah.
Dr. Angela Walk
I noticed that it had a little bit more of the lateral stability a bit. And I, you know, right now I play in the kelso in the 360.
Steven Sashen
I was going to say those are both great shoes, the fours.
Dr. Angela Walk
Yeah.
Steven Sashen
We even have people who play pickleball in the Speed Force, which is our closest thing to barefoot shoe. It’s okay. The one time I played and I have an allergy to pickleball. The one time I played, I was in the Speed Force. It’s totally fine. It’s just what you’re, what you’re comfortable with. I mean, I.
Dr. Angela Walk
Okay. Yeah, well, I, you know, I typically play, like I said, probably the Kelso more than anything, but I wanted to ask you about the X1 because it’s new and I saw another pickleball player wearing them and he, he had the high tops on. And I thought, well, what is this? And I come home and, you know, search and see, and I, I like the white one. So I think I’m going to give those a go for pickleball.
Steven Sashen
It’s, it’s an impressive shoe. And we’re, we’re. I’ll confess, we’re not aggressively promoting it. It’s just an overall court shoe at the moment. Getting so much from, you know, basketball.
Dr. Angela Walk
It’s about time. I’m so excited.
Steven Sashen
Yeah, don’t get me started. Anyway, more importantly, let’s cut to the, let’s cut to the chase for people who want to find out more about what you’re doing and how you can be helpful. If they want to find out more about your program or just follow you in general, let them know how they can do that.
Dr. Angela Walk
Okay. My website is Dr. Angela walk dot com. Dr. Angela walk dot com. I also have an Instagram account. It’s the plantar fasciitis document. I also have a YouTube channel, and it’s the plantar fasciitis doc.
Steven Sashen
Perfect. Well, Angela, thank you so much. As I expected, this was a total pleasure. Not just because you have a giant agreement party, but, you know, it’s nice to hear someone who’s really been exploring this and found, found, you know, I don’t want to say the right information, but it’s just, you know, if you really look at this stuff logically and question things, it’s. You end up with the truth and that’s what you’ve done. So, you know, many, many thanks for what you’re doing. Anyway, for everyone else, please do check out Angela’s web page and her Instagram or her social and et cetera, et cetera. Grab the program if you are having plantar fasciitis and let us both know what the effect of doing that is. And just a reminder, head over to www.jointhemovementmovement.com. there’s nothing you need to do to join. It’s not a club. That’s just the domain that I got. But it’s where you’ll find previous episodes, all the places you can find us on social media, how you can engage with us. If you have anyone you want to refer to me, someone you think should be on the show. And like I said, if it’s someone who thinks I have a case of cranial rectal reorientation syndrome, I’m all game to have that conversation with them. Drop me an email for that or any other reason at move M O V E. Join the movement. Movement.com and most importantly, until whatever’s next, go out, have fun fun and live life feet first.