Bryan Osuna is health and fitness devotee, sound worker, transformational life coach, athlete, artist, inventor, and men’s growth facilitator.
His philosophy is to mindfully combine timeless wisdom, modern understanding and intuition to create valuable resources and experiences that help others live fully and thrive. Bryan uses everything from movement and mindfulness to breath and sound to help people make meaningful change in their lives.
Bryan believes that quality of life is ultimately found through our capacity to learn, love, connect, move, express, grow and be present with the fulness of life.
Personally, Bryan strives to live fully by exploring his passions for fatherhood, movement, athletics, healing modalities, travel, nature, music, art and philosophy. He believes that true enjoyment of life comes through movement and exploration of the mind, body and spirit. To him, the greatest success in life comes when a person has a focused mind, energized body, free spirit and open heart.
Listen to this episode of The MOVEMENT Movement with Bryan Osuna about moving like a kid again.
Here are some of the beneficial topics covered on this week’s show:
– How look at the developmental stages of children and then use reverse engineer that and help people heal their biomechanics.
– Why we should be looking at the macro-movement patterns that kids naturally start doing.
– How breathing deeply into your belly helps regulate the nervous system and physical tension.
– Why having fun with movement is more important than having perfect form.
– How adults should be spending more time on the ground.
Connect with Bryan:
Guest Contact Info
Twitter
@CommittedHP
Instagram
@committedhp
Facebook
facebook.com/CommittedHP
Links Mentioned:
committedhp.com
Connect with Steven:
Website
Twitter
@XeroShoes
Instagram
@xeroshoes
Facebook
facebook.com/xeroshoes
Episode Transcript
Steven Sashen:
If you have children, know children, or have ever been a child, you’re going to want to stay tuned for this episode of the MOVEMENT Movement!, the podcast for people who want to know the truth about what it takes to have a happy, healthy, strong body starting feet first. Because those things are your foundation. Where we were breaking down the propaganda, the mythology, sometimes the outright lies you’ve been told about what it takes to walk, run, hike, play, do yoga, CrossFit, Dance Dance Revolution, E-sim, racing, whatever it is you like to do. And to do it effectively and efficiently and enjoyably. And did I mention effectively? Trick question? I know I did. Because if you’re not having fun, you’re not going to keep it up anyway. So make sure you’re having a good time.
I’m Steven Sashen from xeroshoes.com, your host of the podcast. We call it the MOVEMENT Movement! because we are creating a movement … And I’ll talk about that we part in a second … about natural movement. Letting your body do what bodies are made to do, not getting in the way of that. The way we can be the we part, it’s really simple. Go to www.jointhemovementmovement.com. You don’t need to do anything to join. It’s just the domain that I got. You’ll find the previous episodes, you’ll find the ways you can engage with us on social media, and you will find how you can be part of the tribe.
Basically, subscribe, like leave reviews, thumbs up, hit the bell icon on YouTube. The gist, if you want to be part of the tribe, just subscribe. Okay, Bryan, welcome. First of all, wait, it’s very rare that someone actually comes into the office to do this. I didn’t actually expect that Bryan was going to be live and in person, but here we are. So tell people who you are and what you do. Then we’ll jump into why you’re here.
Bryan Osuna:
Well, thank you Steven. Well, first of all, I appreciate your ability to improvise and adapt when you saw me walking in the door like, “People don’t usually just show up.” So, glad we made this happen. So I’m Bryan Osuna. The way that we met is because I own a company called COMMITTED HP that creates and sells portable, affordable … Oh, something over there.
Steven Sashen:
I have something over there. Wait. All right, you keep talking. I’m going to go get it.
Bryan Osuna:
… and versatile fitness tools to inspire people and empower people to move and take care of themself anywhere at any time.
Steven Sashen:
I’m back. All right, I’m not going to show this now. We’ll come into that later. But I was not prepared well enough for your physical presence, so this was not at my fingertips.
Bryan Osuna:
No worries.
Steven Sashen:
Now, the intro to this episode, “Is if you have kids, know kids, or have ever been a kid.” So I know that this is something that is particularly interesting to you. First of all, you just had a baby. More accurately, your wife just had a baby and you just watched. So talk to me about the fundamental thing before. We get into the specifics about kids and natural movement, what is it that got you interested in that to begin with?
Bryan Osuna:
Hmm. Well, before I had kids and before kids were even a thought, I’ve done just a lot of exploration around what kind of movement works best for me and what kind of movement is most useful for my clients. I was a personal trainer and coach for 13 years. I still do a little bit of that. Transitioning more into transformational coaching with people. But still definitely deeply invested in movement. I think it was Tim Cook, I believe, who planted this idea of looking at the developmental stages of children. And using that to reverse engineer, almost just help people heal their biomechanics and move it. So that really got me thinking about how children develop. What are the macro-movement patterns and the macro patterns that children just naturally start doing? And looking at how we get separated from that and just reintroducing it into our lives.
Steven Sashen:
So can you talk about those different patterns, those different stages?
Bryan Osuna:
Sure. They don’t seem to always happen in the exact same chronological order, but right out the womb-
Steven Sashen:
Well, that’s because some children are time travelers.
Bryan Osuna:
Exactly.
Steven Sashen:
I mean, that’s obvious. So anyway.
Bryan Osuna:
I love it. So breathing is the first one. I remember when my first child, Liam, came out. Laid him on my chest, and someone said, “You breathing right teaches him how to breathe right.” So children’s breathing, when they come out, it’s just very chaotic. There’s not a ton of rhythm to it. So they’re literally learning how to breathe. So that diaphragm does naturally kick in with children, but breathing is the first movement pattern.
Steven Sashen:
Well, let’s dive into that a little more because I know there’s … Oh, I don’t remember the name of the guy. He’s Czech, who has this whole thing about breathing and about 360 degree breathing. So it’s not just what most people think of is belly breathing, it’s just expanding your abdomen. But instead of just getting all of those parts to expand. I just blanked on Erin’s last name, who was on the podcast because I’m horrible with names.
Bryan Osuna:
Alexander?
Steven Sashen:
No. Anyway, she developed a product called the Core360 Belt. That’s just to cue you for that breathing. So talk about that and how that does something? It’s a Monday. I can’t speak English.
Bryan Osuna:
It’s Monday. Yeah. Here we are. We’ll make it work. Yeah, there is this misconception of proper breathing being into your belly. What I perceive and what I’ve learned is learning to breathe into your belly is a way to help you learn how to regulate, right?
Steven Sashen:
Regulate?
Bryan Osuna:
Regulate your nervous system, regulate your physical tension. So when you’re directing your breath into your belly, it’s helping you regulate. Versus just optimal breathing is just optimizing the amount that you can bring air in and out. And creating space for breath. And using the right muscles and biomechanics for that. So mainly, your diaphragm and your intercostal muscles are what you’re trying to work or utilize for proper breathing, just on everyday situations or for performance. And that breath is lateral and posterior. So your rib cage is actually stretching to the side and up and back. Then after that you have accessory breathing muscles which create even more space and assistance by pulling up. Those start kicking in as you start to get fatigued or you need more air moving in and out. But just on an everyday level, right now, if we’re not too stressed out or we’re not stressed, we’re not doing anything intense, our diaphragm and intercostal should be just creating that natural airflow.
Steven Sashen:
I found that when I started playing with this idea … And it’s something I’m still exploring and it’s still expanding, pun intended … is that I had to really work to find how to let those intercostals … let things expand sideways and backwards. And my favorite thing is when I do … I’ve had chronic tension right in between my shoulders and I can feel that stretching as well, even though that’s not what the breath is doing. And I think about babies whenever I do this, because they haven’t developed that chronic tension that gets in the way of doing this. So coming back, like you were mentioning before, reversing time developmentally to find that again is very interesting. What did you notice when you put your baby on your chest and found your breathing? Did you notice that you were doing something awry or were you just brilliant and just teaching that to the kid?
Bryan Osuna:
You’re saying, when I started reflecting on how I was breathing, if I noticed anything?
Steven Sashen:
If how you breathe is going to teach your child how to breathe, what did you notice about your breathing at that time?
Bryan Osuna:
I did notice that my go-to when I think about it is a belly breath. But when I just relax and let my body just take over, my intercostals and my diaphragm do the right thing. So I’ve kind of conditioned myself to belly breath consciously, but luckily my body knows the right way. So I did notice that if I just let my mind go to something else and then I tuned into my breathing without trying, I was using that correct expansion of the ribcage. Versus when I was thinking about breathing, then I’d start directing it into the belly, which isn’t a bad thing. But really, we want to get back to that diaphragm.
Steven Sashen:
So if that breathing thing is our first stage, what follows that?
Bryan Osuna:
We can talk about reaching and articulating with the limbs. The main thing I saw was posturing. And specifically, engaging and articulating the spine. So being able to lift the head and then start to posture up the spine, either from the belly. Or if I was holding the child, being able to just move and keep the spine erect. Yeah.
Steven Sashen:
So I’m trying to think of then, again, for us adults who are thinking about going back in time and experimenting with these developmental stages to see what we learn. How does that apply to those of us who are no longer babies?
Bryan Osuna:
Mm-hmm. So I guess just engaging with your spine and posture in a way that’s allowing you to have a dynamic and strong spine. But also, what a neutral spine actually is, is actually including the curves of the spine. So a lot of people think straight spine. And that’s a good cue for when we’re trying to do something. But in a natural state, a neutral spine is a somewhat relaxed spine with the natural curves. Then being able to move and articulate from that place. What we see a lot, especially when people have spent a lot of time in flection, is they’ve lost that neutral spine. Now they’re moving and they’re initiating so much movement from a flex place, which then compromises their breathing. Then it compromises the structures of their spine and it compromises their movement. So the first thing is helping people almost do kinds of stuff that babies would do, almost from a cobra or a prone position on their stomach. And starting to articulate and activate some of the paraspinal muscles that have gotten weak just so they can actually be in a neutral spine with ease.
Steven Sashen:
Do you want to describe what some of those exercises are or those movement patterns are? So you started saying you’re on your-
Bryan Osuna:
Yes-
Steven Sashen:
… lying in the ground on your belly.
Bryan Osuna:
Something could be as simple as lying face down with your forehead kind of touching the ground and retracting your head. So there’s a difference between extending the spine. And then retracting is where if you have a laser pointer coming out of your nose, that laser pointer staying on the same point on the ground. But you’re pulling your head off the ground. So there’s a glide function of the spine as opposed to just tension.
Steven Sashen:
Just tilting your head up.
Bryan Osuna:
So trying to restore that is a huge thing. Exercises like bird dogs where you’re on hands and knees. And you’re going through a flexion extension at the hips and the shoulders. So then you’re adding some balance and activating some different muscles in addition to those paraspinals. I believe they’re multifidi. So really starting to just wake those muscles up that have kind of just given up and turned off because we’ve spent so much time just hanging on here. Then getting that ability to retract, which even just when you do that, you start to feel those mid-thoracic muscles, muscles like your rhomboids and your trapezius as well, starting to kick in. Once those get stronger and more tone, you’re going to be able to stay in neutral a little bit better.
Steven Sashen:
I noticed gymnasts are very interesting in that way. So those muscles that we’re talking about have problems, not because they’ve given up, but because the most important movements in gymnastics are all pulling into the front of your body. So gymnasts all look like their chest is kind of caved in because that’s just a really important movement. And then there’s a lot of tension in the lower back as well. And all gymnasts have messed up shoulders after they’re done. In fact, I just had literally, right before I got here, had an injection in my bicep tendon, because old gymnastics thing. But I noticed that if I was just doing things like scapular retraction, just pulling your shoulder blades back and down, if you’re doing that with resistance or whatever, never really did a lot for me.
But one day, Lena and I moved into a place and I put a chin-up bar. Our second bedroom was where we had our television. We had a couch there, television, and bathroom. And so I put a chin-up bar in the doorway to the bathroom. And anytime I went to the bathroom, I would just go and do a couple of pull-ups where I really focused on just that retraction part first before I actually bent my arms. That made a huge difference for me. I don’t know if it was the angles or whatever it was. But just that that little bit with a band or just with nothing, doing scapular retractions never made a difference. But that was really helpful. And I referred to that as trying to get the gymnast out of my body. To get that seeming contraction in the upper body out. And turn that into something, again, more neutral.
Versus someone that I knew who was in the Navy. And they’re constantly saying, “Pull your shoulders down, put your chest out.” And he walked like a peacock all the time, because everything was so out of whack. I mean, we were kids when I met this guy. We teased him mercilessly, of course, because we were children. But I like this idea of getting back to neutral and movable rather than some imagined position that people often have a misconception about.
Bryan Osuna:
I love that too. To just expand on your point with the gymnastics, I wrestled for 15 years. If any of you have seen wrestling, there’s a lot of time in that flexion because it’s more of a defensive position if someone’s trying to attack you. Did I scoot out of the-
Steven Sashen:
Yeah, I’m scooting you back in. Here we go.
Bryan Osuna:
Okay. Then after wrestling, I tried really hard to be good at CrossFit. Because I had spent so much time conditioning my spine into thoracic flexion, I just couldn’t put heavy weights over my head as well.
Steven Sashen:
Oh, interesting.
Bryan Osuna:
At least that’s my excuse.
Steven Sashen:
Yeah. It’s important to have an excuse for any time you find you can’t do it. You just have to find an excuse.
Bryan Osuna:
The ego needs one.
Steven Sashen:
Yeah, much better.
Bryan Osuna:
Had nothing to do with me being 150 pounds. And then after that I found Spartan Race, which I was much better suited for physically. But yeah, I mean, I spent a lot of time, and a lot with the help of that Moball Roller, which I actually created for myself eventually-
Steven Sashen:
Okay. Okay. Come on. Product plug. Let me pull it out of the box. So here as I’m pulling out of the box, say more about how and why you created this. First, now I got to figure out how to open the box. There we go.
Bryan Osuna:
After wrestling, I was pretty much a mess in many different ways, but mainly physically. The most screamingly obvious issue is my neck. Just severe neck pain. But after 20 different professionals telling me, “It’s actually not your neck, it’s actually your thoracic spine. And your neck’s trying to figure out how to move now because your thoracic spine is such a mess.” I was like, okay, “Well I need to fix my thoracic spine.” It was at the same time I was learning about self-myofascial release. I was the guy with all of the foam rolling tools in the gym. So whole bag, I had the regular foam roller. I had the two tennis balls taped together. I had the lacrosse ball. I had the Orb, which was pretty firm foam ball about this bag. And I would just rotate between them all. Finally, I was like, “I need one thing if it exists.” And it didn’t exist. So I made that
Steven Sashen:
Dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun. For people not watching … Here, I’ll let you describe this because I can think of a number of ways of describing it that are not politically correct. So here I will let you hold and describe. And for people who are watching, this will be screamingly obvious because you’re looking at it.
Bryan Osuna:
A huge reason it got popular is because of all the political incorrectness that came with it. I usually didn’t say anything. I just smiled and said, “Any publicity is good publicity,” but-
Steven Sashen:
I have no problem being politically incorrect. But it’s more fun if someone else is doing it rather than just me. I mean, look, if I wanted to CEO this company, I’d be fired for an HR violation a couple times a day. So I just say things that it’s appropriately not appropriate for work. I don’t know what that means. I mean, I treat everyone like they’re friends.
Bryan Osuna:
So go back to the prototype and the first few models, these balls were blue. So the jokes were infinite.
Steven Sashen:
Okay. So to be clear, we have a stick with two balls on it that are the size of a softball. And there’s more to it than that. But they’re red. But yes, if they were two big, blue balls, I don’t need to do the jokes. I think everyone else can do them pretty effortlessly.
Bryan Osuna:
Yep.
Steven Sashen:
Yeah.
Bryan Osuna:
So-
Steven Sashen:
Here. All right, so I’m going to do it. The issue is you can use this as long as you want, but you never feel totally satisfied.
Bryan Osuna:
What’s that?
Steven Sashen:
You can use this as much as you want, but you never felt totally satisfied when the balls were blue.
Bryan Osuna:
This is true. There was something missing.
Steven Sashen:
Okay.
Bryan Osuna:
Okay. So we have dense, resilient foam balls. Similar give as lacrosse ball, but a little bit more of that memory foam-esque give. So two balls and they’re impaled by a stick, which is also wrapped in a foam. So these balls adjust out. The initial idea came from the two tennis balls taped together, which seemed conceptually to be awesome. But pressed on my spine and also didn’t get a lot of the locations on my body that I wanted. So I just wanted the function of being able to adjust the balls out. Then I played with the ball sizes and it seemed like in between a lacrosse ball and a softball was the sweet spot that got like 95% of what we needed to do. So that’s about the sizing of the balls, just a little bit smaller than a softball.
And they adjust out in width. So if you want them all the way together, that’s great for getting the muscles right next to the spine. It’s also great for putting your calf on. Then you have either side of the gastrocnemius. So for those of you that don’t know, the main muscle in your calf is the gastrocnemius and it’s split into two. Similar concept-
Steven Sashen:
Deliberately. That’s the way they come.
Bryan Osuna:
Yeah.
Steven Sashen:
Yeah.
Bryan Osuna:
Similar concept with the hamstring. Or if you want to be more efficient in getting two sides of the body, you can space the balls out. Now, you sit your butt on there, you get both sides of the glutes. You can do both sides of the hamstrings, all kinds of things. The stick is padded, so throwing your foot on there is really great for just getting the foot the first thing in the morning. Or you can hold the stick this, put it behind you, and now I can just sit here and just manipulate it around or move it around with the handle. So that’s the short and sweet. But the cool thing is giving it to someone who’s been a massage therapist for like 40 years. And be like, “Show me all your creativity.” And people come up with stuff that even I haven’t thought of.
Steven Sashen:
Oh, that’s great. All right. We’ll come back to that. All right. This was a bit of a tangent from stages where we went into neutral spine. That led to stories about your back, your neck, et cetera. So where are we next in the stage development, change, whatever the word is I’m looking for. Again, Monday. Can’t think of words.
Bryan Osuna:
Monday. So your excuse is Monday. My excuse is two kids.
Steven Sashen:
Oh, yeah. I will say that it’s Monday on any day of the week if I have to.
Bryan Osuna:
Having two kids and being home with them all the time, every day is all a blur. You don’t look at the calendar until you have a meeting with someone. And luckily you make it.
Steven Sashen:
And then you show up at their office unexpectedly. That’s a great plan.
Bryan Osuna:
Keep people on their toes. So after posturing would be crawling,
Steven Sashen:
Crawling.
Bryan Osuna:
Crawling. So crawling can start emerging in a lot of different ways. My first son did more of an army crawl at first. That was fun to see because that wasn’t something that I had really thought up, at least when I was exploring this process without having a kid. But then army crawling came in. But yeah, just starting to look at contralateral coordination. That’s just coordinating your right hand with your left leg and vice versa. And starting to engage some of those fascial slings and different things that allow you to do more full-body dynamic movement patterns. Then you’re reinforcing that posture that you’ve developed and starting to engage your senses a lot more. Because now you’re moving around.
Steven Sashen:
Again, for adults, we’re going back to this stage, what does that look like?
Bryan Osuna:
That bird dog is a great segue because then you’re being able to balance and engage on arm and opposite leg.
Steven Sashen:
So describe that. Here, I’ll let you do it.
Bryan Osuna:
So you’re on hands and knees.
Steven Sashen:
Oh, by the way, I could’ve done this. I actually could, but I’m letting you do it.
Bryan Osuna:
You could have done it.
Steven Sashen:
Well, I could have done the description. But this is one of those things where it could’ve sounded like I was handing it off to you because I didn’t know how. But I could have done this. I’m just letting you know.
Bryan Osuna:
We don’t have a little cartoon we can put in there of you?
Steven Sashen:
Anything of me is a cartoon, but no. So back to your description.
Bryan Osuna:
So arm and opposite leg are going to be coming off the ground at the same time in the same rate. So arm-
Steven Sashen:
Sorry, wait, so on all fours.
Bryan Osuna:
On all fours.
Steven Sashen:
Yeah. Knees and toes on the ground, hands on the ground, and then? Sorry.
Bryan Osuna:
So arm’s basically going up in the air to horizontal in parallel with the spine. Then the opposite leg is basically doing the same at the same time. That’s starting to develop certain muscles that are important for these contralateral movements, like the arm and opposite leg. So now you’re stabilizing on the arm and opposite leg that’s on the ground. That’s a really great exercise. Then literally just getting people to initially shuffle. As opposed to a beast or a bear crawl where your knees are off the ground and you’re then having to support yourself additionally more on the limbs they’re touching or the points they’re touching. Versus getting people to coordinate right arm, left leg sliding forward like a shuffle. And then left arm, right leg. So they’re almost just shuffling, baby shuffling. And then once they can do that, knees are off the ground. You can try that with your knees hovering off the ground, or you can stick your butt high into the air more like a bear crawl.
Honestly, trying to get people to have fun with it is really more important to me than being super strict about doing it perfectly. But if we can start to see a natural, again, that word contralateral pattern just emerging. Or at least a really balanced, natural way to move around on hands and feet or hands and knees. That’s the main thing we’re looking at. Then with that, the tissue’s going to have to adapt. Oftentimes, your toes are tucked under. Oftentimes, the hips, the wrists, those types of things that are in new positions are having to stretch a little bit. Sometimes that’s something we have to readapt to.
Steven Sashen:
So I have the sense that we’re eventually going to get to standing. What’s in between here and there, if anything?
Bryan Osuna:
Getting up.
Steven Sashen:
Getting up. All right, let’s talk about getting up.
Bryan Osuna:
So I mean, I tell people just spend more time on the ground, period. Because naturally, hopefully if you spend more time on the ground, you’re getting up and down more.
Steven Sashen:
One would hope.
Bryan Osuna:
But sometimes you do have to teach people that part as well. But I believe there’s some research actually done on your ability to get up and down off the ground. Once you lose that, your likelihood of early-
Steven Sashen:
Dying.
Bryan Osuna:
… early-age mortality or just your time span, your lifespan from that point where you lose it, it goes down dramatically.
Steven Sashen:
There are a couple. One is your ability to get up … It’s not even getting up and down. It’s getting up and down without your hands, even a bigger one. And similarly, walking speed. I don’t remember what the threshold is, but if you’re walking at something slower than … Fill in the blank, I don’t know what it is … then the probability that you’ll be dead within five years is through the roof. And I would contend that a lot of that happens because people have been either wearing shoes for a long time and don’t have much feedback from their feet to their brain and back.
But then as they start to lose that, then dumb doctors … Not saying all doctors are dumb, but the dumb ones … will put them in even bigger, thicker, stiffer shoes. And so they’re just shuffling because they’re trying to make sure they stay balanced. And the irony is that makes them less balanced. There’s some research going on right now that … Happily, they’re using our shoes … that might demonstrate an alternative that would save insurance companies billions of dollars and keep people from dying excessively prematurely. So fingers crossed on that.
Bryan Osuna:
Yeah. Yeah, the third one that I definitely heard about was-
Steven Sashen:
Okay, pause one sec. Oh, good. Time out. For anyone who is thinking about this whole getting-up-and-down thing, especially with no hands, the other fun part, the other fun thing to do is see how many different ways you can do it.
Bryan Osuna:
Mm-hmm. I love that.
Steven Sashen:
Yeah. That one’s a blast. I’m trying to think if I want to give any hints about ways to explore that. Because our eyes are in front of our head, the obvious thing we do is always forward. So let’s just say if that’s the obvious thing, what other directions can you explore to get up and down from?
Bryan Osuna:
Do you want to get really creative with it?
Steven Sashen:
Oh, yeah. Let me hear it.
Bryan Osuna:
Well, when I was playing with this, I definitely practiced … So I always tried to start from the same position.
Steven Sashen:
Which is what?
Bryan Osuna:
Just seated with my legs crossed.
Steven Sashen:
Okay.
Bryan Osuna:
Yeah. I mean I can uncross from there, but rolling over my shoulder. If you’re familiar with ukemi, which is the art of falling, which in incorporates a lot of rolling. Parkour is largely based on ukemi. So kind of doing a reverse ukemi roll over my shoulder and then using that momentum to get up. Another would be doing a gymnastics hollow body rock back. Then using that momentum forward. From that one, you can get up like six different ways depending on how you plant your feet.
You can do a symmetrical squat. You can lay your on the side of your one leg. You can even go into a cross leg and spin up, spiral up. So there’s all kinds of fun ways. But usually, the easiest is to just lay one leg down on its side from that momentum part. And then the other leg plants foot-flat and drives up into kind of a modified lunge. So that’s a fun one to just play around with is see how many different ways.
Steven Sashen:
Okay, here’s one. So when I was somewhere where they came up this experiment. And the thing that I always do is I try to look for the thing that no one’s doing. So I don’t remember what it was, but it was some class where it was like figure out how many ways you could do whatever. And I realized that no one had left the room. So I just literally walked out the room and did whatever it was. But in this one, you’re sitting down. And then you roll over, say your face towards the ground. Put your head on the ground and then scoot your knees and your feet up. So your head’s on the ground for as long as you can. And then roll back to squatting. So it’s just using your head as a third point of contact. I didn’t see anyone using their head, so I went, “Oh, let’s try that one.”
Bryan Osuna:
Should we make a video later about all the ridiculous ways you can get up?
Steven Sashen:
Hey, they’re not ridiculous. These are things that will keep you from dying. We’ve already established that.
Bryan Osuna:
They’re fun. They’re fun.
Steven Sashen:
They are fun. It’s entertaining. It’s like I talk about this a lot. I always think about any pattern that I have, how can I try something different? So if you put your pants on left leg first, try right leg first. If you brush your teeth with your right hand, try using your left hand. There’s some things that I’m … Again, HR violation … not allowed to say. But that’s the gist. I always like to see what things are habitual and then try to mess with that. All right. So we’ve gotten up, or are we still getting up?
Bryan Osuna:
We’re in the process of getting up. Another tangent that we can go on another time, because I know we have limited time, but it’s like-
Steven Sashen:
I know. Time is infinite.
Bryan Osuna:
… now that I have kids is almost all of my natural … Not all … but the majority of my natural movement practice is legitimate play. Something never resonated with me when I would go to gyms that were movement culture gyms. I absolutely loved the style of movement, but so often they were so serious, like, “We have to-”
Steven Sashen:
“Like this.”
Bryan Osuna:
“We have to train these ways.” And it’s serious face. And there’s so many teachers and modalities out there that teach amazing and beautiful movement, but they’re so serious. Now that I have kids, I try to be as ridiculous and silly and laughy when I’m doing my movement. But I’ll do my flips, handstands rolls, all of my monkey, ape stuff with my kids. And that’s truly the best way to do it now that I realize it. But taking movement too seriously is something that I did for way too long. And now I’m trying to have a blast with it,
Steven Sashen:
I was at an event a couple years ago for footwear CEOs. It was an all-day event. And by 4:00 in the afternoon, it was all I could do not to yell, “They’re just shoes, people.” Now, granted, we think what we do is life-changing. But what they were doing, they were acting like this was going to save the world if they decided to take an elevated heel and make it a half an inch bigger or have some other color pattern. That was like, “You guys are taking yourself way too seriously.”
Bryan Osuna:
Too seriously.
Steven Sashen:
Yeah, it happens in many places. Happily, I was at this event a couple weeks ago, and maybe I was just lucky. I ended up at a table with people who did not take any of it at all seriously. In fact, here, I’ll give you this story. At dinner, at the end of the event, Tommy Hilfiger and his wife Dee did a little talk while we were having our salad. It was all kind of silly and we were teasing them a little just at our own table. And then I thought of the perfect question to ask, and the mic did not come to me. But accidentally, as I went to the bathroom, I bump into Tommy Hilfiger. And I said, “Hey, I got a quick question for you. And if your answer’s yes, I promise I won’t tell anyone.” He goes, “Ooh, what’s that?” I go, “Do you ever just slip into a pair of JCPenney sweats and a hoodie?” He just goes, “No,” and walked away. I just had to. It was way too much fun
Bryan Osuna:
Secret. He was like …
Steven Sashen:
I got him. Definitely a question no one had ever asked him before.
Bryan Osuna:
Love it.
Steven Sashen:
All right. So are we still getting up or are we up?
Bryan Osuna:
Getting up. We can say we’re up. Let’s be up, because getting up can be self-explanatory. But in terms of reintegrating it, the main things you want to look at is hip mobility. If you have significantly compromised hip mobility, you’re going to only be able to get up a few certain ways, which it’s going to be a little bit ugly. Leg strength. I’m totally blanking on … Oh, and balance. Yeah, those are the three things that often get lost that we need to reintroduce for getting up.
Steven Sashen:
So how would someone know if they have lost hip mobility?
Bryan Osuna:
There’s certain tests. I mean, a squat assessment test is a really easy one to start with. Especially with the internal, external rotation of the hips to see if their limited internal or external rotation is compromising how they squat and making them squat differently. This is something I haven’t done in a really long time. So I would have to poke around at it a bit to remember. But a squat assessment is something I used to use. Then there’s manual ways where you can check internal-
Steven Sashen:
So backing up on the squat part. So simplest instructions for someone to play with, experiment with, what would you say?
Bryan Osuna:
The simplest?
Steven Sashen:
Yeah.
Bryan Osuna:
Well, I guess just videotaping themselves squat.
Steven Sashen:
Describe what you hope to see, or if they’re squatting well versus squatting badly and have limited hip mobility,
Bryan Osuna:
Well, videotape yourself from the front and the side. As your butt’s getting down to about the level of your knees, oftentimes what you’re going to see is you basically just start flexing your spine forward. If your hips don’t have good enough internal rotation, your, basically, hips are going to start stop flexing, or they’re going to start deviating in a certain direction. Usually, let’s see, I guess that would be out if there’s a limited internal rotation.
Steven Sashen:
Well, so in other words, if I can do a little translation to English for some people. Once your hips get a little past the level of your knees, you might start seeing that your knees start to cave in, your knees start to go out. You might feel some tension in your feet wanting to go in or out. All of these. And by the way, when you start the squat, where do you want your feet to be?
Bryan Osuna:
For the test?
Steven Sashen:
Yeah.
Bryan Osuna:
I believe it’s parallel at shoulder width. But that’s something I haven’t done in a really long-
Steven Sashen:
That’s okay. But that’s an interesting thing to experiment with to see what happens if they’re in that position or if your feet are a little wider and pointed out or even pointed in. So all of these, I can imagine, are things that if you start to feel something where you can’t get ass to the grass, then you know you’ve got something going on with hip mobility.
Bryan Osuna:
Yeah, it’s either going to be hip or ankle, right?
Steven Sashen:
Ah, yeah.
Bryan Osuna:
So very often people will feel a literal pinch or locking sensation in their hips. And they try to continue the squat by dropping their head and their upper body. So you’ll see them start to go into spinal flexion, thinking that they’re going lower into a squat. But their butt’s not actually going lower. So people with ankle restriction, you’ll see that their knees won’t progress any further forward. And then they kind of start sitting back. Similar stuff starts happening. But usually you can tell that it’s because their knees aren’t able to go forward anymore without their heels coming off the ground. So from there, if you can’t tell if it’s your ankle or hips, there’s other ways to play around with that. You can do an ankle mobility test. But long story short, hip mobility is something that a lot of people lose as they get older. And it’s really important for that functional movement of getting up and down up there.
Steven Sashen:
Dude, I’m hanging out with a sprinting coach who I really like, who mostly deals with high school kids and college kids. He has some hip mobility tests that many of them are failing. So you don’t have to be that old-
Bryan Osuna:
No, not at all.
Steven Sashen:
… to have this not become problematic.
Bryan Osuna:
Yeah. That’s one of the things that people don’t realize about sport that requires specific adaptation. Sometimes it’s a beautiful sport, but people aren’t getting taught how to then take care of their body after they have these very specific adaptations over decades. Like a pitcher, a sprinter, who’s really refining and optimizing power through a very specific range of motion and not using more. I think there’s a lot more awareness to it now. And I think a really good strength and conditioning coach is aware of that and can help minimize the risk of injury. But that’s one of many things I did not get taught as a high-level athlete, that when you’re done, you’re going to want to take care of your body. And help return your body to these natural ways of moving, which I luckily figured out on my own.
Steven Sashen:
There’s another sprinting coach that I know. His whole theory about the weight room is you’re not using the weight room to get stronger as a sprinter. You’re using the weight room to get things back in place that you got all out of whack when you were sprinting. I was like, “Ah, that’s clever.”
Bryan Osuna:
Yeah, that’s one way to look at it. But I love that concept of creating extra range and space so that you don’t hit your limitations-
Steven Sashen:
Right.
Bryan Osuna:
Right … during your sport.
Steven Sashen:
Okay, so we’re standing up. We talked about hip mobility. What was next?
Bryan Osuna:
I haven’t heard other people look at it this way, but I really like to look at the actual process of getting back down. One I included in that is jumping off of things. Because very often we see kids jump off of things. People are jumping on.
Steven Sashen:
Well, definitely because as soon as you said, “Kids jumping off of things,” I had flashbacks to what I did where I could easily jump off of this thing. But if I could jump onto my 10-foot roof, that would’ve been miraculous. But I remember bringing the dirty laundry out, making a pile of dirty laundry, climbing onto the roof, and jumping off the roof.
Bryan Osuna:
Amazing. We were just talking about stuff like that this morning with my friends about what we used to do as kids that kids don’t really do anymore or that parents don’t let their kids do. I haven’t come to any conclusions. It’ll be like, we’ll see what happens. But there’s definitely some things that really allowed us to become resilient and robust that we did. And then there’s other things, I’m sure, that were just downright pretty stupid.
Steven Sashen:
I used to climb the trees in my backyard. They were 70 feet high and my parents did not approve. So I did it when they weren’t home. Getting back down. So let’s talk about the ways of doing that. Now, you just got a baby. We just got a dog a year ago. And my favorite thing is watching his usual way of getting down, which is just falling over. Because he’s not very high off the ground. So he literally just tips over, which I think is hysterical.
Bryan Osuna:
Yeah. Speaking of falling over, I had initially theorized learning how to fall properly was incorporating that getting back down. I haven’t yet seen kids really learn that gracefully yet. But that’s something that I think is super valuable. There’s even a quote, I don’t know who said it, is, “The most important thing in life is learning how to fall.” I think that’s literally and metaphorically, the idea of learning how to fail, learning how to get back up after you fall. Or fail in a way that’s graceful.
Steven Sashen:
Well, look, this from wrestling, I know it from gymnastics, is the only way you get better is doing it wrong thousands of times. Because, A, you hone in on doing it better. But you also know on those rare times where something goes wrong, you’ve been there before. You know how to adjust or save yourself to the extent that you can. I mean, I had more than my share of times where something went awry. And I’m just 10 feet in the air going, “I could die when this ends. Well, let’s see what happens.” So, happily I did not as far as I can tell. But a lot of it is just doing it wrong over and over and over. For our gymnast coach, it’s doing it wrong and not going … Because if you do that in some meet when you do it wrong, you’ll make those same noises. And that’s not good.
Bryan Osuna:
Practice how you want to compete, right? How you want to perform.
Steven Sashen:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So, so, so, other than just falling over on your side, what have we got?
Bryan Osuna:
Getting back down. That’s not one that I expanded a lot, but it was a interesting concept. Because I did notice that there are specific patterns of getting back down. But usually, when training it, making sure that the eccentric phase of a lunge and a squat has the range of motion and the stability to get you all the way down to the ground. Ultimately, you’re looking at a lot of the same stuff as getting up. But there are also a lot of unique and fun ways to get down and to fall. I’m sure we could do a whole podcast on that. I firmly believe that giving kids the space and the safety both physically and emotionally to explore their bodies, they figure out all this stuff on their own. But that is the one of all of them as well, in addition to running, where I’m like, “A little bit of instruction or a little intervention can be really valuable.”
Steven Sashen:
Again, you’re giving me flashback after flashback to things I literally haven’t thought about in decades. I got really good at doing stunt falls where it looked like I tripped on something and then just face planted. And so I’m at an event with a number of friends and I do one of these. It’s a convention, and I do one of these. And it just so happened there was a security guy right next door … or in front of me. And he’s freaking out thinking that I actually … Because what I do, I fall on my face and then point back at the carpeting as if I tripped on that thing. So he freaks out and immediately calls the guys running this event. And they’re ready for me to sue the crap out of them because of this thing on the carpet that did not exist.
And so I tried to calm them down and tell them it was just a stunt fall. They really didn’t get it. This is a bunch of marketers. We thought we should write a book called Sue and Grow Rich. And it’s all these fake ways of doing something like that. Not because we believe that you should sue people to get rich, but because we thought if we did it right, we could get on Oprah by taking it seriously, which I think would’ve been really fun. But we never pulled it off.
Bryan Osuna:
When satire gets taken seriously.
Steven Sashen:
Yeah. Well, there was a guy … Oh, Abel is his last name. I can’t remember his first name. Alan, maybe. There’s a documentary about him. He did a whole thing. He created an organization that was all about putting clothes on animals because they don’t being naked. And people took it totally seriously. After like five years of this, he and the other people doing it, went, “We can’t keep this up. I mean, there’s no way out of it.” But people completely believed it. So yeah, there’s always people who believe.
Bryan Osuna:
I’m probably going to totally butcher this, but I know there was a couple guys that created almost satire research just to test the peer review process.
Steven Sashen:
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Bryan Osuna:
And they passed through peer review process-
Steven Sashen:
With complete gibberish. No, there’s another one. There’s two guys called The Yes Men. I don’t know if this is the first thing they did. No, it’s definitely not. The first thing they did. One thing they did is they put up a fake World Health Organization website. Then they got invited to come to a talk because someone thought it was a real WHO website. So they did. It was all the most ridiculous stuff ever. There’s a couple movies from The Yes Men. One of the first things they did is they took a whole bunch of talking Barbie dolls and talking G.I. Joe dolls and switched the voice boxes. So Barbie would say, “Let’s … ” And G.I. Joe would say, “It’s time to go shopping.” And they put them back on the shelf and people bought these. I mean, it was just hysterical. So look up The Yes Men would be another opportunity for that. All right, what else we got?
Bryan Osuna:
We got back down. I incorporated jumping off of things. Because that specific development of taking on more impact and eccentric load seems to really help develop in a certain way. And it’s really awesome, because I just watched my son make a quantum leap of only being able to jump off low curbs. And within a span of a week, now he’s jumping onto curbs and he’s jumping off of three-foot-high rock. And it’s cool to see both at a actual physical growth level and a developmental level, kids make these quantum leaps. I heard about this research done where this woman actually showed that kids very often don’t grow, don’t grow. And then they make these quantum leaps of an inch in a matter of a day or two or three.
Steven Sashen:
Yeah. To be clear, that didn’t happen to you or I.
Bryan Osuna:
Okay. So I always tell people I was supposed to be between 6′ 2″ and 6′ 4″, but I lived in the time of low-fat diet. And my mom was all in on it. I did gymnastics and wrestling. And I was definitely supposed to be like 6′ 1″, 6′ 2″.
Steven Sashen:
And you ended up what?
Bryan Osuna:
What?
Steven Sashen:
And you ended up where?
Bryan Osuna:
Like 5′ 5″ and 3/4.
Steven Sashen:
Yeah, I looked at a spinal X-ray recently, and I’ve got a couple of spine things going on. It’s like I did used to be 5′ 6″ dammit. That’s never going to happen again. So yeah, I have no excuse for that. Well, that was a six-week preemie. That’ll be my excuse. And it’s Monday. So that’s my other excuse for everything.
Bryan Osuna:
Here we go. We’re back on-
Steven Sashen:
Oh, wait. On jumping, though, a thing to pay attention to is don’t jump off something bigger than you are. And then if you can videotape it, watch what happens to your knees when you land. Because if your knees cave in, that ain’t good. And so that’s the thing where I just see when people are landing, it’s like, “Oh, oh, don’t do that.” Start lower and pay attention. Get a mirror. Watch where your knees are going. You want them to track parallel or slightly out, depending on what your feet are doing too. Because that one could be messy.
Bryan Osuna:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Totally. I mean, this is where the whole chronological thing varies. I definitely saw some of Liam’s friends or friends of ours who had kids, some kids were jumping onto stuff just after two, just mind-blowing. And then Liam is three and a half and he just started jumping onto stuff. But he developed other things much earlier. And-
Steven Sashen:
He’s doing your taxes. I bet.
Bryan Osuna:
He’s already better at doing taxes than me. That’s for sure. So let’s see, where are we?
Steven Sashen:
Standing?
Bryan Osuna:
We did getting up and getting down.
Steven Sashen:
Getting down, yeah.
Bryan Osuna:
So now, there’s a whole pool of things that happen, like I said, in no necessarily chronological order. We’re just picking things up. We didn’t say walking, of course. Walking.
Steven Sashen:
Well, what we kind of jumped over balance.
Bryan Osuna:
Yeah. Yeah. I always went back and forth with balance. What is balance? That’s not as much of a motor pattern as it is a learning of the nervous system, how to equilibrate and adjust. But that’s not one that I necessarily included. But it seemed to be essential for pretty much all of these things, the development of all of these things, is learning how to balance. So then walking gate. Many of you may know that a walking gate in a running gate is different. So walking is going to come before. And usually kids aren’t going to start running. Very often, you’ll see kids skipping or doing some sort of gallop thing when they’re trying to run before they learn a proper running gate. So we got walking. And then around the similar time, you start seeing them learning to pick things up off the ground. Well, at least stuff with some real weight substance, from standing position. Liam has his own little nine-pound kettlebell, which he loves doing little … It’s super cute.
Steven Sashen:
Halloween is however many months away. That’s the thing I remember about picking stuff up. Because the rule was if you could pick it up, you can take it. So there’s all these pictures of me and my sister going for stuff that is … It looked like a strongman competition in miniature.
Bryan Osuna:
Meaning if you can literally hold it?
Steven Sashen:
Physically pick it up off the ground and hold it, then you can bring that one home. It was a blast.
Bryan Osuna:
So we’re talking about pumpkins?
Steven Sashen:
Yeah.
Bryan Osuna:
Okay. At first, I thought you were talking about candy. I was like, “You’re-”
Steven Sashen:
Well, I think it was that too. It’s like if you couldn’t carry it then you couldn’t eat it. But no, it’s picking up pumpkins.
Bryan Osuna:
That’s when you start seeing how creative you can actually be. If you tell them, “If you can pick it up, then you can have it.” And with candy, oh, you’ll see some creative stuff.
Steven Sashen:
Well, my creative thing for candy was whenever … There was always a house in someone’s neighborhood where they said the person there is a horrible, witchy person. And they don’t like kids or whatever it is. Or it’s down some dark alleyway and no one goes there. It’s like, so that’s where I went. And invariably, that’s where you end up getting a bag full of full-size candy bars, because no one showed up. Yeah,
Bryan Osuna:
Yeah. So luckily I recently read, and maybe it’s not up-to-date so I need to look read again, but it is an urban legend or a myth that people used to put things in-
Steven Sashen:
Apples.
Bryan Osuna:
… in apple. Yeah.
Steven Sashen:
Never happened. Absolutely, never happened. Although I had a joke. This is not for kids, it was an adult joke. Just I would put out a bag of razor blades and a bag of apples saying it’s a DIY project.
Bryan Osuna:
Amazing.
Steven Sashen:
So walking gate, running gate.
Bryan Osuna:
Yeah. Picking things up.
Steven Sashen:
Oh, yeah. Picking up.
Bryan Osuna:
Carrying things of weight or different, I guess, size and dimension. And then the last would be climbing up onto things.
Steven Sashen:
Wait, I want to back up to the carrying things. And again, to my looking for patterns. I noticed this one yesterday. The track that I normally go to had some football stuff going on. So I had to go to a different track where I had to park about 200 yards away. I had some extra stuff in my bag. And I realized I always carry my bag on my right shoulder. So I went, “Oh, look at that.” So I put it on my left shoulder and it’s like, “Huh, that’s a really interesting, unusual feeling.” So again, looking for those habits, those things that you’ve gotten used to without paying attention is an interesting thing to explore.
Bryan Osuna:
It is. It is interesting to explore … I never really incorporated this into my training … that though very often as trainers, we try so hard to be perfectly symmetrical, we’re not actually symmetrical beings. But that hasn’t really made its way into … or at least that I know of … into traditional fitness training of how to actually honor our actual asymmetries.
Steven Sashen:
Yeah. The closest thing I can think of is doing dumbbell stuff instead of barbell stuff. But even that’s a different game. All right, so now we’re climbing onto things, which of course is again for me, what led to jumping off of things.
Bryan Osuna:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like I said, to a degree, many kids start climbing up stuff before they start walking. My son started climbing up the stairs before he started walking. Some kids wait quite a while before climbing up on stuff. So that’s one of those things that it’s very dependent on the kid. But now my son is climbing on climbing walls. And he’s climbing up on vertical structures and different things at the playground, which is pretty fun to see. And jumping off of stuff. So he now touched on all of the major macro-movement patterns that I theorized on.
The only other one, which I didn’t include from a training-adults-to-get-back-to-natural-movement standpoint was the throwing-chopping motion, which I think there is a ton of value in it now that I explore it more. But in a modern context, not as important for survival as much as it was maybe when you had to throw a spear, chop down your own trees to make houses out of. But it does develop your body in a really unique and useful way, though.
Steven Sashen:
And again, this is one where I actually debate in my own mind about trying whichever one is your opposite side versus just doing whatever side you prefer best. Because I haven’t really spent a lot of time trying to throw left-handed. I know, as a sprinter, if I try to start with the opposite leg forward, it’s just not correct. I mean, not that I can’t do it, it’s just that I don’t have the same kind of power or speed. So I don’t do it because it has no value to get ambilegstrous from that use case. But that’s one that I’m curious about, especially chopping motions. That’s intriguing to me
Bryan Osuna:
In general, my question or curiosity with myself with asymmetries is, am I just not as coordinated because I haven’t used this side of my body as much? Or is this actually illuminating a true physiological deficiency? Like pressing overhead. If I can’t actually get my arm to vertical versus this one and that’s why my left feels so much weaker. Then I’m like, “Okay, that’s illuminating something that might actually be valuable to improve upon.” Versus the carrying the bag, carrying an awkward object where you just feel better doing it on the right. That might just be from a neuromuscular patterning thing, your body just isn’t used to it. And you would quickly catch up on that side.
Steven Sashen:
Yeah. I had shoulder surgery five years ago, six years ago. So I couldn’t use my dominant arm for a couple months. I was really surprised. I got really good at writing with my left hand. It’s like, “Eh, that was pretty interesting.” Can’t do it now. And I just bought a jacket made in Europe. So the zippers on the, quote, “wrong side.” And it took me a good three months to get comfortable doing that, because it’s surprising how the little angles make a difference in just zipping something up. So it literally took me a while, which I thought was pretty funny. Europeans.
Bryan Osuna:
Yeah, I was put in the, I called it the rocket launcher. When you have rotator cuff surgery, they often put you in that sling that has the huge pad that keeps your arm off the body. So I got the pleasure of being in the rocket launcher. I mean, shoulder surgery’s extremely common in wrestling. So there was even a running joke of we all passed on the same rocket launcher to each other as wrestlers on our college team. But yeah, same thing. I started to get really good at doing stuff with my left hand that I never even thought to do with my left before that.
Steven Sashen:
Again, HR violation that I’m not doing. So we’ve gone through all these patterns. We’ve gone through ways that people can explore playing with them to see what you find. I would probably bet that the one people least want to do is probably the one most valuable. This is my hunch. Or the one that you think you’re the worst at, probably the best one to play with and just find a way to do it. Anything else? We got to wrap this up badly. But anything else that we need to do to bring this in for a landing?
Bryan Osuna:
Well, one big one that I do a lot of and has gotten a lot of publicity and awareness around is through the context of climbing up things, the hanging piece. I’m such a huge proponent of hanging. I actually hanging from gymnastics rings the best. So I even just did a post of, one of my favorite life hacks right now is putting gymnastics rings outside. And just hanging from them and twisting and just seeing how many different things you can do. Not even from the context of working out, but just hanging and getting in different positions like a monkey.
Steven Sashen:
Come over to my house.
Bryan Osuna:
Head over to your house?
Steven Sashen:
I got two sets hanging outside.
Bryan Osuna:
There you go. But hanging is just so good for you. Even if you don’t understand why, it’s just so good for you. All the tissues that it stretches and the things that it opens up for you. And your grip strength is directly correlated with lifespan. They’re just on and on. But if I can just end with one thing is like start hanging from things. Go with your kid onto the playground and hang from the bars. Do the monkey bars. Hang from a tree, gymnastics rings, hang more.
Steven Sashen:
I like it. Brilliant. So Bryan, if people want to get in touch with you, find out more about what you’re doing, find out about your company and the products that you have, please let them know how to do that.
Bryan Osuna:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So the company is committedhp.com. So two M’s and two T’s in COMMITTED. People get that wrong very often. So C-O-M-M-I-T-T-E-D-H-P.com. This is the Moball Roller. This is the full size. The travel size is just shorter in length, but the balls are exactly the same. Phenomenal product. Just like Steven shared with me. It’s one of those products, once you get on it, you’re like, “Wow-
Steven Sashen:
It’s a good one.
Bryan Osuna:
” … I’m so glad I got on this thing.” Personally, I’m comfortable giving out one of my emails. So-
Steven Sashen:
He’ll say, “Here’s my phone number, security number.”
Bryan Osuna:
… [email protected] is the one email I’m comfortable putting out there. Yeah, so I’m transitioning into transformational life coaching is the main thing that I’m focusing on as well as sound therapy. I’m sure we could geek out on that. But happy to still explore the movement through the context of just making yourself the best version of you you can make.
Steven Sashen:
Beautiful. Well, thank you, thank you, thank you. It’s been a total pleasure. I mean, we’ve been trying to make this happen for a while. So I’m glad we did by you storming the office. So for everyone else, A, thanks, B, reach out to Bryan. I’m sure you’ll get value out of that. C, remember, go to www.jointhemovementmovement.com to find previous episodes, all the ways to engage with us. And if you have any requests or suggestions, anyone you think should be on the show, whatever floats your boat, anything you want to share with me, just drop me an email. Move, M-O-V-E, @jointhemovementmovement.com. And most importantly, between now and whatever’s next, go out, have fun, and live life feet first.